Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Keith · 07-20-2003, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pain Paien

"Your own "objective morality" has this very same problem. You have no basis under your system for knowing that god did not command this slaughter, so you cannot decry it on any real basis.

And where is your basis for knowing that God DID command it? Do you just hurl jewels like this hoping that something will stick? Am I supposed to agree with you and say..."yah, you're right, God probably ordered Hitler to gas the Jews." Unless you have a reason to believe this, why say it?

Keith · 07-20-2003, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pain Paien

"You implied it could be viewed as pragmatic. That was false, and showed misunderstanding on your part.

I implied that Hitler may have viewed the gassing of millions of Jews to be pragmatic for him. Now, what did I say that was false and showed misunderstanding on my part?

winstonjen · 07-20-2003, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Keith
And where is your basis for knowing that God DID command it? Do you just hurl jewels like this hoping that something will stick? Am I supposed to agree with you and say..."yah, you're right, God probably ordered Hitler to gas the Jews." Unless you have a reason to believe this, why say it?

Ah, but in your own beloved bible, it says to never question god. In other words, you are supposed to just 'take their word for it'. Do you doubt Hitler's divine inspiration because you dislike his actions, but don't care about the baby-murdering god of the OT?

Pain Paien · 07-20-2003, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Keith
And where is your basis for knowing that God DID command it? Do you just hurl jewels like this hoping that something will stick? Am I supposed to agree with you and say..."yah, you're right, God probably ordered Hitler to gas the Jews." Unless you have a reason to believe this, why say it?

I do not believe god exists, as anyone who had read my posts would know. The reason I posted it was because YOU could not know, thus you have no basis to decry it. Under your system, if god had ordered it, it would be "moral", and you have no logical reason to believe that he did not. This kind of concession should make it clear the untenable nature of your argument. What you are supposed to realize is how irrational your position is and admit that your argument has no foundations, though you almost certainly won't be able to do so.

Keith · 07-20-2003, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pain Paien

"That's it, you've put the final nail in your own coffin. You have either willfully ignored the posts of this thread, or are completely immune to both logic and communication. All of this, every last bit of it, has been discussed again and again since the debate began. You have failed to address it or even acknowledge it each time. Either read the thread and attempt to actually participate in the argument (by gaining an understanding of it), or hold court with your strawmen elsewhere."

C'mon, Pain Paien, you can answer my question.

Pain Paien · 07-20-2003, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Keith
I implied that Hitler may have viewed the gassing of millions of Jews to be pragmatic for him. Now, what did I say that was false and showed misunderstanding on my part?

You stated that Hitler's acts could be viewed as pragmatism. This is not true. The fact that he might have viewed it as such is immaterial: his delusions or yours have no bearing on this "discussion".

Pain Paien · 07-20-2003, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Keith
C'mon, Pain Paien, you can answer my question.

Yes, I could post it for the umpteenth time, but apparently you would not be capable of reading it.

Keith · 07-20-2003, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by winstonjen

"Ah, but in your own beloved bible, it says to never question god. In other words, you are supposed to just 'take their word for it'. Do you doubt Hitler's divine inspiration because you dislike his actions, but don't care about the baby-murdering god of the OT?"

I asked an honest question.

Keith · 07-20-2003, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pain Paien

"You stated that Hitler's acts could be viewed as pragmatism. This is not true. The fact that he might have viewed it as such is immaterial: his delusions or yours have no bearing on this "discussion".

Wrong. I suggested that Hitler may have viewed the gassing of millions of Jews to be pragmatic for him.

Pain Paien · 07-20-2003, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Keith
Wrong. I suggested that Hitler may have viewed the gassing of millions of Jews to be pragmatic for him.

Wrong, you implicitly stated that the actions might possibly be rationably conceived as pragmatism, proving you do not know what it means.

Quote:

Is there any sane person that thinks that Hitler's "pragmatism" justified his actions?

This statement, quotations or not, implies that it could be termed pragmatism. Pragmatism does not change its definition for the rest of the world just because delusional people might misuse it. There is no way his acts can be viewed as pragmatism, contrary to what you implied.

Edited to add: Again, if you wish to discuss the nature of language, you should go to the philosophy forum.

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