Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Duvenoy · 11-29-2002, 03:42 AM

Overall excellent, Winace!

A small comment(s) on blowflies:

There a number of species that infect mammals. The most common means of infection is from the fly laying eggs on the coat of the animal, which are licked off and ingested. The larvae quickly hatch and attach themselves to the stomach and intestional walls. Wanna see a horse owner get paranoid? Sneak up on him and say, "Botfly!"

Another is the screw worm. This wonderful example of the Glory of God penetrates the skin of a mammal, usually the scrotum, and the maggots form and feast there. I was once in attendence (shoeing a horse, but stayed around for the operation) when a vet removed screw worms from a sheep's scrotum. It was interesting, but not a show for the faint hearted.

I can see where your site could be great one! Keep 'er goin'!

doov

excreationist · 11-29-2002, 03:54 AM

I think you should have a nice little picture or two... maybe a happy insect or worm or some clouds or something.

Camaban · 11-29-2002, 03:56 AM

actually..

when you get it done, send it on over to JCSM (send the athiests there an e-mail explaining the situation and asking them to lay off it a bit) and see what Jason has to say about it.

Lizard · 11-29-2002, 04:39 PM

Things that look designed:

I saw a special on PBS last night about this rich English guy who travels the world in search of weird orchids.

There is one (or maybe there are hundreds) orchid which seems ingeniously designed. It is one of the "slipper" variety. It lures a bee by means of disguising its amazingly penis-like sexual organ as a bee (I think I remember this correctly). The bee (which is carrying a couple of pieces of pollen on its head) attempts to mate with it, then drops into the "slipper," where it falls into a bunch of sticky goo. It deposits the pollen there. Then, when it comes back up, it takes the orchid's pollen to another orchid. Well, an orchid expert can correct me on the details, but heck. Doesn't that sound like something that couldn't have evolved step by step? I mean, it's a perfect example of ICS or specified complexity, as far as I can see.

So how come ID promoters are still stuck on the mousetrap and the bacterial flagellum? There are probably literally billions of examples like the orchid which it's hard to imagine evolved their survival/reproductive strategies naturally. Why don't they call these organisms IC? Do they think the Designer doesn't deal with (hush) s-e-x???

Skydancer · 11-29-2002, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lizard:
<strong>Things that look designed:

I saw a special on PBS last night about this rich English guy who travels the world in search of weird orchids.

There is one (or maybe there are hundreds) orchid which seems ingeniously designed. It is one of the "slipper" variety. It lures a bee by means of disguising its amazingly penis-like sexual organ as a bee (I think I remember this correctly). The bee (which is carrying a couple of pieces of pollen on its head) attempts to mate with it, then drops into the "slipper," where it falls into a bunch of sticky goo. It deposits the pollen there. Then, when it comes back up, it takes the orchid's pollen to another orchid. Well, an orchid expert can correct me on the details, but heck. Doesn't that sound like something that couldn't have evolved step by step? I mean, it's a perfect example of ICS or specified complexity, as far as I can see.

So how come ID promoters are still stuck on the mousetrap and the bacterial flagellum? There are probably literally billions of examples like the orchid which it's hard to imagine evolved their survival/reproductive strategies naturally. Why don't they call these organisms IC? Do they think the Designer doesn't deal with (hush) s-e-x???</strong>

Could be. Or they may have been burned on this sort of thing before and become more wary. Like the bombardier beetles, this is the extreme end of the adaptation range. There are plenty of orchids with simpler arrangements, all the way from normal flowers through difficult access through one way passages to this one. Once you realize that a scaffolding process can build these things up a step at a time and then delete redundant steps, there's very little -if anything- that can be claimed to be IC.

Duvenoy · 11-29-2002, 05:41 PM

The neatest orchid of all has to be the Hammer Orchid. This sneaky, little flower also imitates the female of a species of wasp. The male, insane with lust, lights on it and tries to mate, it triggers a part of the flower that swings down and clobbers the poor, little bastard with a pollen sac.

The flower also has the ability to scrape the sac off when the wasp, like a sailor in from the sea, visits another, apparent wasp brothel.

Love's labor lost and gained, eh?

The ID guys are really missing out on some of the world's most interesting flora and fauna in their single-minded desire to prove the false.

doov

WinAce · 11-30-2002, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Darwin's Terrier:
Excellent, WinAce!

You really ought to get some pics of those nasty critters though.

There were a couple of great ones from the sites I linked to for further information, but the copyright issues...

Quote:

excreationist: I think you used too much overly complex language in the intro and end though. I think creationists either speak technically and formally, or in plain language with humour. They don't combine both styles like you do (as far as I know). The way you've combined the technical style with humour is really annoying. But perhaps that was your plan.

Yeah, they don't. But since I was intending it to be rather tongue-in-cheek, I guess it's OK...

Quote:

Camaban: your best bet might be actually sending AIG an e-mail asking for advice on creating a small creationist website...

Then see what you can do with that

I think I can continue working on it on my own. It'll be a cold day at the Earth's center (

) when I collaborate with the incompetent bozos at AiG.

Quote:

Duvenow: A small comment(s) on blowflies:

There a number of species that infect mammals. The most common means of infection is from the fly laying eggs on the coat of the animal, which are licked off and ingested. The larvae quickly hatch and attach themselves to the stomach and intestional walls. Wanna see a horse owner get paranoid? Sneak up on him and say, "Botfly!"

Another is the screw worm. This wonderful example of the Glory of God penetrates the skin of a mammal, usually the scrotum, and the maggots form and feast there. I was once in attendence (shoeing a horse, but stayed around for the operation) when a vet removed screw worms from a sheep's scrotum. It was interesting, but not a show for the faint hearted.

Yuck. I remember reading about a vet who left the profession after removing maggots from a rabbit that went into anaphylactic shock. It was highly grotesque. Good suggestions!

Quote:

Camaban: when you get it done, send it on over to JCSM (send the athiests there an e-mail explaining the situation and asking them to lay off it a bit) and see what Jason has to say about it.

Too busy, but someone else can do that if they want. Although, I'm pretty sure no one is stupid enough to fall for an obvious piece of satire. Although after reading <a href="http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/aprilfool.html" target="_blank">this</a>, I'm not so sure anymore...

Quote:

Lizard: There is one (or maybe there are hundreds) orchid which seems ingeniously designed. It is one of the "slipper" variety. It lures a bee by means of disguising its amazingly penis-like sexual organ as a bee (I think I remember this correctly). The bee (which is carrying a couple of pieces of pollen on its head) attempts to mate with it, then drops into the "slipper," where it falls into a bunch of sticky goo. It deposits the pollen there. Then, when it comes back up, it takes the orchid's pollen to another orchid. Well, an orchid expert can correct me on the details, but heck. Doesn't that sound like something that couldn't have evolved step by step? I mean, it's a perfect example of ICS or specified complexity, as far as I can see.

So how come ID promoters are still stuck on the mousetrap and the bacterial flagellum? There are probably literally billions of examples like the orchid which it's hard to imagine evolved their survival/reproductive strategies naturally. Why don't they call these organisms IC? Do they think the Designer doesn't deal with (hush) s-e-x???

Egads. That's reveals almost as sick a designer's mind as the parasitic stabbing rape practiced by bedbugs. Maybe the reason they don't want it shown is because it'll reveal the Designer's sexual peccadiloes are much more interesting than those of any human?

Quote:

The neatest orchid of all has to be the Hammer Orchid. This sneaky, little flower also imitates the female of a species of wasp. The male, insane with lust, lights on it and tries to mate, it triggers a part of the flower that swings down and clobbers the poor, little bastard with a pollen sac. The flower also has the ability to scrape the sac off when the wasp, like a sailor in from the sea, visits another, apparent wasp brothel.
Love's labor lost and gained, eh?

The ID guys are really missing out on some of the world's most interesting flora and fauna in their single-minded desire to prove the false.

That's I'll probably use this one in lieu of Lizard's, as the clobbering part is even weirder.

Well, I have enough material for awhile, but I'll be checking back on this topic occasionally, and perhaps updating my page with a few of the more bizarre, twisted lifeforms you can find.

But for now, I have another project--refuting a webpage which lists "Star Trek plot holes" with the methods Bible apologists use.

Duvenoy · 11-30-2002, 05:07 PM

May I add one more, a truely remarkable animal?

The Surinam Toad (Pipa pipa)

Quote:

With her back near the water surface, the female deposits 60 to 100 eggs. They are fertilized by the male and distributed over the back of the female. Eggs adhere and sink into the sponge-like dorsal skin. Within 24 hours, the female's back begins to swell around the eggs. By 10 days, each egg will be embedded in a chamber, producing a "honeycomb" on female's back. They remain on her back until fully metamorphosed (12 to 20 weeks), then push out through the membranes covering the pockets. Young are cannibalistic and have no gills or tails (reabsorbed during development).

<a href="http://www.honoluluzoo.org/surinam_toad.htm" target="_blank">http://www.honoluluzoo.org/surinam_toad.htm</a>

<a href="http://www.wowanimalinstincts.info/custom2.html" target="_blank">http://www.wowanimalinstincts.info/custom2.html</a>

Fascinating, and obviously could not have been brought forth by the Satan-spawned and false nonsense of Evolution!

doov

[ November 30, 2002: Message edited by: Duvenoy ]</p>

WinAce · 12-20-2002, 06:32 PM

Thought I'd give this a bump because I updated it with the hammer orchid and... those ants that suck blood out of their own young. Quite grotesque, if I do say so myself.

Nevertheless, there must still be some nasty things in biology I haven't mentioned

seebs · 12-21-2002, 08:53 AM

I was hoping you'd have at least one thing like the Sony "Aibo". Just throw in a mechanical life form in the middle of the list, with only a vague description, and see if anyone notices.

Funny page.

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11-29-2002, 03:42 AM	#11
Duvenoy Veteran Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Just another hick from the sticks. Posts: 1,108	Overall excellent, Winace! A small comment(s) on blowflies: There a number of species that infect mammals. The most common means of infection is from the fly laying eggs on the coat of the animal, which are licked off and ingested. The larvae quickly hatch and attach themselves to the stomach and intestional walls. Wanna see a horse owner get paranoid? Sneak up on him and say, "Botfly!" Another is the screw worm. This wonderful example of the Glory of God penetrates the skin of a mammal, usually the scrotum, and the maggots form and feast there. I was once in attendence (shoeing a horse, but stayed around for the operation) when a vet removed screw worms from a sheep's scrotum. It was interesting, but not a show for the faint hearted. I can see where your site could be great one! Keep 'er goin'! doov

11-29-2002, 03:54 AM	#12
excreationist Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Australia Posts: 4,886	I think you should have a nice little picture or two... maybe a happy insect or worm or some clouds or something.

11-29-2002, 03:56 AM	#13
Camaban Regular Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 473	actually.. when you get it done, send it on over to JCSM (send the athiests there an e-mail explaining the situation and asking them to lay off it a bit) and see what Jason has to say about it.

11-29-2002, 04:39 PM	#14
Lizard Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Kansas Posts: 169	Things that look designed: I saw a special on PBS last night about this rich English guy who travels the world in search of weird orchids. There is one (or maybe there are hundreds) orchid which seems ingeniously designed. It is one of the "slipper" variety. It lures a bee by means of disguising its amazingly penis-like sexual organ as a bee (I think I remember this correctly). The bee (which is carrying a couple of pieces of pollen on its head) attempts to mate with it, then drops into the "slipper," where it falls into a bunch of sticky goo. It deposits the pollen there. Then, when it comes back up, it takes the orchid's pollen to another orchid. Well, an orchid expert can correct me on the details, but heck. Doesn't that sound like something that couldn't have evolved step by step? I mean, it's a perfect example of ICS or specified complexity, as far as I can see. So how come ID promoters are still stuck on the mousetrap and the bacterial flagellum? There are probably literally billions of examples like the orchid which it's hard to imagine evolved their survival/reproductive strategies naturally. Why don't they call these organisms IC? Do they think the Designer doesn't deal with (hush) s-e-x???

11-29-2002, 05:41 PM	#16
Duvenoy Veteran Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Just another hick from the sticks. Posts: 1,108	The neatest orchid of all has to be the Hammer Orchid. This sneaky, little flower also imitates the female of a species of wasp. The male, insane with lust, lights on it and tries to mate, it triggers a part of the flower that swings down and clobbers the poor, little bastard with a pollen sac. The flower also has the ability to scrape the sac off when the wasp, like a sailor in from the sea, visits another, apparent wasp brothel. Love's labor lost and gained, eh? The ID guys are really missing out on some of the world's most interesting flora and fauna in their single-minded desire to prove the false. doov

12-20-2002, 06:32 PM	#19
WinAce Beloved Deceased Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Carrboro, NC Posts: 1,539	Thought I'd give this a bump because I updated it with the hammer orchid and... those ants that suck blood out of their own young. Quite grotesque, if I do say so myself. Nevertheless, there must still be some nasty things in biology I haven't mentioned

12-21-2002, 08:53 AM	#20
seebs Contributor Join Date: May 2002 Location: Saint Paul, MN Posts: 24,524	I was hoping you'd have at least one thing like the Sony "Aibo". Just throw in a mechanical life form in the middle of the list, with only a vague description, and see if anyone notices. Funny page.

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