Nectaris

Here's something I've been mulling around in my head for a little while and it sort of relates to "can god make a rock. . ." argument, so I'll present it here, looking for criticism and suggestions:

Assume that an all powerful god created the universe (as many theists propose)

Here is where I have more of a question than a statement:

Logic is a quality that is part of the universe(?)
(I’m not sure if this is a valid statement, so I’d like to hear other people’s ideas)

Since this god created the universe, it also created logic, either directly or indirectly (that is if you take the statement that logic is a quality of the universe as valid).

If this god cannot do the logically impossible, did it actually create a boundary that not even it could surpass? In other words, did god create a limitation on its own omnipotence?

I realize there are some flaws such as:
Logic is not a quality of the universe.
It would be illogical for god to create a universe that didn’t have logic, however I think that implies that logic exists beyond the boundaries of the universe. . .
One could also argue that logic and the universe are require each other for coexistence.


What does any of you think?

emotional

No. God is logic.

King Rat

emotional,

I don't mean to insult but, you've got the weirdest made-up god I've ever heard of. It's like you've taken bits and pieces from every religion and new-age spewing and stitched up a raggedy-andy god. I've also noticed that you have come up with fanciful counters to most religious quandaries. It's too bad the counters only consist of various outgassings and water vapor.

I'm happy that your scarecrow makes you happy, and he is definitely just as credible as the xtian god. I just find it odd.

Here's the problem, there is no document of the abilities of your diaphanous diety, so it makes it hard to understand. Could you please enlighten us? Can you post a separate thread that details the specifics of your belief? Or if you already have, please point me to the link.

Again, if I have insulted you it is only from a position of ignorance, you can help me understand.

Volker.Doormann

This is fantasy beyond all laws of logic. Nothing can be created out of nothing. Either there is an eternal universe or not. It seems it is.

emotional

He's not made up, He's real.



A God of natural law, who creates the universe in an instant and then lets everything flow in a massive pageant of evolution. What's so weird about that? Christians and Muslims, if they accept evolution, haven't been up to the task of fitting it into their theologies. I have.



And just what do you mean by that?



He's not a scarecrow, He's real, and you too will meet Him when you die.

(this isn't a threat. God doesn't punish atheism. But He does punish an immoral life)

Go visit my website. (you know, the "www" button at the bottom of my post)

King Rat

Thank you.

emotional

The universe is not eternal, it had a beginning 15 billion years ago. Something cannot come out of nothing, something must always have existed, but since it's not the universe that has always existed, then God has always existed.

Volker.Doormann

How about giving a reasonable valid scientific explanation about the physical existence of logic? And/or if logic has not a physical existence, what the verificable fasificable scientific nature of logic is? Fluid? Solid? Plasma? Bosons? Quarks? Where is logic located? Where not? Depends logic on time as some physically processes? Is logic available to any individual, or only to a few? What is the true nature of logic?

Nectaris

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Emotional said

No. God is logic
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Well let’s see now, a dictionary definition of logic:

The study of the principles of reasoning, especially of the structure of propositions as distinguished from their content and of method and validity in deductive reasoning.

Is that what you are saying your god is?

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Emotional said:

He's not made up, He's real.
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I was just curious as to how you arrived at a gender for “The study of principles . . .?”

For me statements such as “God is love,” or “God is logic” appear to be cop-outs, and don’t really address any pertinent issues and that logic and love have definitions of their own and exclude deification. It also leaves a lot of questions to be answered, such as:

How could the study of the principles of reasoning, especially of the structure of propositions as distinguished from their content and of method and validity in deductive reasoning create the universe?

Would there be any need to worship the study of the principles of reasoning, especially of the structure of propositions as distinguished from their content and of method and validity in deductive reasoning create the universe?

If you are using a different definition of “logic,” please let me know. . .

Volker.Doormann

You are talking about a physical universe only, showing again and again and again this movie: "robotic energetic processes in time called life". But this movie is a hoax, nothing but an illusion in time. No one can give a proof of his spiritual existence, beyond ancient atoms. It is the reality behind the illusion, what has a meaning, not a movie, called physical universe.