Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Chad · 07-12-2002, 08:21 PM

This argument irritates me more than most for a couple of reasons. For starters, it is obviously false. I'm sick and tired of seeing religionists pointing to the DOI as evidence that the founders wanted our country to be theistic and not secular. I don't think I have ever seen a religionist comment on the Treaty of Tripoli.

Also, never mind that God, Jesus Christ, and Christianity appear nowhere in the constitution. For them, our nation is a Christian nation simply because Christians were involved in its creation. It does not even matter whether the Christians founders subscribe to the same brand of Christianity or would even agree with them on the pledge. The founders are automatically true Christians if helps today's Christians weaken church and state.

But beyond all this, the argument is irrelevant even if true. Even if the founders were fundamentalist Christians who desired to create a Christian theocracy, it does not mean we are obligated to maintain it 226 years later. I think the DOI says as much too. All this argument says to me about those that make it is that (some) Christians do not want to treat us fairly and they believe this argument justifies their not having to do so. The same goes for the people that believe they have more right to live in this country simply because they subscribe to the "same" religion as the founders.

Buffman · 07-12-2002, 09:27 PM

Ask them to define, specifically, what they mean by a Christian Nation. Then see how that definition compares to the British Christian Nation we fought...at least twice, and the German Christian Nation we fought twice. Then you could ask them how many of these Christians were responsible for the slaughter of the Indian Pagan Nations and all the lying and crooked deals that are a part of that Christian Nation history.---Of course you could do some homework and find out just how many of the first so-called settlers in this country were crooks, thieves, prostitutes and whores shipped out of England to the New World. All good Christians. Just as an aside, ask them how many people were on the Mayflower. Then, how many of them were Puritans? Then, how many of the Puritan company died within the first year? And how the natives helped to save the rest.

Just some interesting history that most Christian zealots never learn.

07-12-2002, 08:21 PM	#1
Chad Regular Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Cedar Rapids, Iowa Posts: 110	Christian nation argument This argument irritates me more than most for a couple of reasons. For starters, it is obviously false. I'm sick and tired of seeing religionists pointing to the DOI as evidence that the founders wanted our country to be theistic and not secular. I don't think I have ever seen a religionist comment on the Treaty of Tripoli. Also, never mind that God, Jesus Christ, and Christianity appear nowhere in the constitution. For them, our nation is a Christian nation simply because Christians were involved in its creation. It does not even matter whether the Christians founders subscribe to the same brand of Christianity or would even agree with them on the pledge. The founders are automatically true Christians if helps today's Christians weaken church and state. But beyond all this, the argument is irrelevant even if true. Even if the founders were fundamentalist Christians who desired to create a Christian theocracy, it does not mean we are obligated to maintain it 226 years later. I think the DOI says as much too. All this argument says to me about those that make it is that (some) Christians do not want to treat us fairly and they believe this argument justifies their not having to do so. The same goes for the people that believe they have more right to live in this country simply because they subscribe to the "same" religion as the founders.

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07-12-2002, 09:27 PM	#2
Buffman Beloved Deceased Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: central Florida Posts: 3,546	Ask them to define, specifically, what they mean by a Christian Nation. Then see how that definition compares to the British Christian Nation we fought...at least twice, and the German Christian Nation we fought twice. Then you could ask them how many of these Christians were responsible for the slaughter of the Indian Pagan Nations and all the lying and crooked deals that are a part of that Christian Nation history.---Of course you could do some homework and find out just how many of the first so-called settlers in this country were crooks, thieves, prostitutes and whores shipped out of England to the New World. All good Christians. Just as an aside, ask them how many people were on the Mayflower. Then, how many of them were Puritans? Then, how many of the Puritan company died within the first year? And how the natives helped to save the rest. Just some interesting history that most Christian zealots never learn.

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