brighid

Baloo-

Very well stated! I for one am a bit of a stickler about manners and what not. I have learned that the men who use the best manners - holding the door, who are respectful, polite, are willing to help others out - such as helping an elderly person cross the street, etc. do make the best mates - hence one of the many reasons I married my husband.

And I just want to say to all the men who have commented about how they treat people with respect and politeness - if anyone hasn't thanked you lately - I am saying thank you! There are women out there that really appreciate those qualities in a man. Keep up the good work!

Brighid

Roarke

To baloo--

That is my thought on it as well. Example: I was taking this girl out on a date and without thinking, I opened the door for her(not car door mind you). She blew up on me, complaining about how I was discriminating against her just because she was a woman and that I thought she couldn't open the door for herself..

For the rest of the night I waited for her to pull my chair out, order the food, open tbe doors.. and I almost made her pay.. almost.. We split the bill.. But I think I made my point. I'm a spiteful bastard..

[ December 30, 2001: Message edited by: Roarke ]</p>

Bob *insert witty nic here*

Wow, what an interesting topic. Great posts Baloo, and Brighid.
I agree that men should do all of the things you mentioned for their women and that doing so increases their chances of having sex with the chosen woman. And I also believe that I know why this is, and why it works.
It is because men and women are NOT equal.
OK ok, before the lynch mob forms I will also say this: men and women are DIFFERENT.
Equal by definition means also "the same".
Men and women are not the same.
Women and men each have their own distinct talents and abilities, both physical, mental, and spritual.
Women and men have different abilities.
This means that men and women are not equal.
This is an important (and often missed) distiction because I think that accepting differences as opposed to trying to equate men with women empowers both sexes by allowing both men and women to be who they are, and it also allows for the celebration of those differences. I think in society today as a reult of the crusade for sexually equality we are no longer able to be fully ourselves as either women or men. People of both sexes are criticized for either being to masculine or to feminine (and I am refering to males being masculine and females being feminine). If anyone is reading this and truly believes that men and women are equal (and understands fully what equal means) then you have to think and be aware of what you truly believe. Forget having a woman to bear and care for your children, forget having a man to lift all of those heavy moving boxes and the one peice china hutch (what else are we good for?) Otherwise your just another feminist who wants to have the cake and eat it to. One can either have the equality or the chivalry, not both.

engie

Among my friends at a 6th form (16-&gt;18) college, we tend to respect differences - maybe it would be better if a couple of lads carried the heavy boxes. The girls only complained once . Funnily enough, it tends to be the girls (I'm thinking of one really) who keep us all organized. A symbiotic relationship - very useful!

DarkDruid

Chivalry? Historically speaking, chivalry has almost diddly-squat to do with women, and focuses more on the way the warrior class treats other members of the warrior class. Basically, meaning that if knight A has a problem with knight B, they meet on equal terms to kill eachother, more of a contest of martial skill rather than treachory.

The part of chivalry you are speaking about falls under the loose clause of "protect the weak." Of course, the "weak" meant women and children of the noblity, as well as elderly or infirm nobles. A knight could rip open a pregrant women or torture an enemy child without concerning himself about being chivalrous. So, in short, perhaps we should call the act of being nice to the opposite gender something else.

Now, as far as being polite and "chivalrous" goes, I don't really see what the issue is. Some women love it, others hate it. Personally, it's a non-issue, because if I get to a door first, I feel obligated to hold it for those behind me, male or female.

tronvillain

I'm going to go with Baloo and say courtship ritual - sexual selection at work.

ChurchOfBruce

When my oldest daughter was about two, I took her into Boston for the day. Since parking in Boston is impossible, we took the subway in.

Of course, I forgot--there are very few elevators in the (antiquated) subway system in downtown Boston. There *are* lots of stairs. And I'm by myself with a two year old and a diaper bag in a stroller. And the stairs were never-ending.

I'm behind the stroller, slowly pushing it up stair by stair. Suddenly, these two very large african-american gentlemen (I'm white) surround me, move to the sides of the stroller, and, without a word, each of them lifted the sides of the stroller off the stairs. I kept hold of the back, and we easily got the stroller up the stairs.

They set the stroller down, smiled and waved, and headed off. I barely got out a "thanks!" as they left. Probably the single nicest thing a stranger (well, two strangers) have ever done for me. And it doesn't matter that I'm a guy, *that* is chivalry.

--Frank

ChurchOfBruce

Pregnant women are *sexy* . Lots of men would agree with that.

Oh, and if guys want to get hit on? Go in a public place, like a mall, with a baby. It's amazing--my best friend says that "man alone with baby is the world's most reliable chick magnet"
He's right. Like I've said, I stay at home during the day with my 11 month old, so, if I go do errands, she's with me. Women *swarm* to us. I wish I had thought of this *before* I got married--I would have borrowed a baby to go out looking for girls

--Frank

I_C_THE_LITE

When I am chivalrous, it is simply because I was reared that way; it is unpretentious or demeaning, and I have run into a few instances where my offerings were rebuffed. The personal motive(s) for being chivalrous would determine any negativity. .

d'naturalist

Okay, I know I'm going to get yelled at for this, but some people are just way too insecure? Opening a door = "I don't think you can handle it, little lady." What the F* kind of twisted thinking is that?!

I'm sorry, but I'm chivalrous. To me, being chivalrous means taking care of other people. I open or hold doors for people because I like to try to make life a little easier for my fellow man/woman. Yes, I go more out of my way to be of service to young, single women. Is that sexism? No, it's me trying to make a good impression (and get a date).

If my neighbor's trash cans roll into the street, I'll jog over and pick them up. It doesn't mean I think my neighbor's incapable of doing it.

If I see someone drop something, I'll pick it up, chase them down, and give it back to them. It doesn't mean I think they're too stupid to find it themselves.

If I see someone struggling to carry some things, I'll offer to help. It doesn't mean I think they're weak or uncoordinated.

In the good ole days, being a knight meant being noble and of service to the land & people you protected. That's where chivalry got its start. I practice it in a similar manner. I look out for people, not down on them. If I focus my attention on women more than men, it's because I'm looking for a woman who'll appreciate my services and want to share her life with me.

Overall, I just hope my "random acts of kindness" will inspire others to look out for each other more, and maybe someday, when I have an armful of packages, someone will hold the door for me (that has happened, so it must be working).