Freethought & Rationalism Archive

02-23-2003, 05:50 PM

Seraphim, when you have freemixing, premarital sex is inevitable. We must learn to live with it. Besides do you think that such activites were not going on in past ages in India as well? On the other hand, arranged marriages have more to do with wanting a rational relationship and approval of family, which is very traditional.

My reply : I'm no virgin myself ... but it had nothing to do with freemixing. To have sex with someone you love and wish to live the rest of your life with is noble and acceptable ... to have sex simply because it is because you like someone is ... well ... for me is unacceptable because there is consequences which young couples attend to overlook.

What is the girl gets pregnant? Will the boy accept that responsibility? If the girl went to abortion, she will have to live with the guilt and scorn of the society around her for the rest of her life as well ... is she ready for that? Guys do not get much damage from all this freemixing stuff ... it is the girls' future who is in stake.

And Yes, I do agree that such activity were conducted in the past, and accepting someone (in term of sexual) without marriage and such ceremony is simply a Kesatrian (Warrior's) practise. Why do you need ceremony when the two of you accepted each other by heart and have God as witness of your union? I doubt your freemixing culture has ANYTHING to do with Kesatrian code or God's approval on it.

Shivsena is just a political party who decided to take up the cause of culture to get votes; so don't expect it to do anything useful.

My reply : You have a lot of those in your country? People who is wasting a good cause on stages to get votes?

hinduwoman · 02-25-2003, 05:07 PM

Seraphim, I was not referring to Gandarva vivaha, but to the fact that premarital sex had always happened inspite of social restrictions. As for consequences, well, many do not think and others simply do not care even if they have to abort.

Yes, most political parties in India are more interested in soundbytes, which is a very important reason why India is not progressing.
India is developing in spite of her politicans!

02-25-2003, 11:29 PM

Seraphim, I was not referring to Gandarva vivaha, but to the fact that premarital sex had always happened inspite of social restrictions.

My reply : I was referring to Gandarva Vivaha, but I cannot comment whether freesex is something that actually occured in the past. My assumption is it didn't because various books which I read, including National Geograph accounts of early explorers which I found in the library and also in logical assumption that the pervious society in India were more attached to their customs that people now did.

As for consequences, well, many do not think and others simply do not care even if they have to abort.

My reply : That doesn't make it right or acceptable, does it?
You want to tell your children to mix freely because the next person is doing it, despite of the risks and consequences?

Take a look at the West and what free mixing among its people did for its society - AIDS, breakdown in marriage and teenagers not old enough to have a driving licence YET have babies to take care. You want such things to increase in your society?

Yes, most political parties in India are more interested in soundbytes, which is a very important reason why India is not progressing.

My suggestion : Reduce political parties and increase qualifications for a political candidates.
Look at Japan and their political system as a good example - their ministers are treated as servant for publics and the publics actually can demand a person to step down if he doesn't do his job properly.

India is developing in spite of her politicans!

My reply : No offence, but I will wait till someone like Mahatma Gandhi to appear once again before I could think about coming over.

andy_d · 03-03-2003, 06:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Seraphim
Take a look at the West and what free mixing among its people did for its society - AIDS

Er, AIDS actually came from Africa, Seraphim, and Africa still accounts for something like 80% of new cases.

You can't actually be suggesting that the west, or anybody, brought the disease upon themselves? Some kind of universal justice? If you are, that's pretty sick...

03-04-2003, 05:10 PM

By andy_d

Er, AIDS actually came from Africa, Seraphim, and Africa still accounts for something like 80% of new cases.

You can't actually be suggesting that the west, or anybody, brought the disease upon themselves? Some kind of universal justice? If you are, that's pretty sick...

My reply : I was referring to freemixing as ONE of the methods of spreading AIDS in a society, not where it came from.

Only reason I can say why Africa is so high in AIDS's percentage is because people there uses less birth control contraptions (such as condoms) during sex (free sex or with married partners).

As for Universal Justice ... I have not said anything, did I? If you think it is some kindda universal justice, then why don't you think about the crime you probably done rather than the punishment you had received.

Sattwic · 03-04-2003, 08:45 PM

Celebrating love eh?
Well Hindu culture has not one day to celebrate love but plenty.. it is plain ignorace to say that Hindu/Indian culture does not celebrate love and needs a Saint Valentine's day to send out cards, little 'i love you ' goodies etc.. all with one thing in mind., to get laid.
hey I did that too, sending cards, flowers and things. All for one purpose. You know it, I know it, no point in pussy footing over it. Valentine day today has no other significance than to show off, that too by buying the costliest, cutest and sincerest looking gifts... and hoping it will make an impression.

Traditional Hindus celebrate the marriages and love stories of Gods... many of these festivals are centered on the theme of Love... and love making too.
If one can understand the songs that accompany festivals celebrating love themes of Gods, you won't need a lesson more in the art of loving,.. forget Kamasutra.

Hinduism celebrates all aspects of life and does not 'hate' any of it, be it passionate love or disspassionalte ascetism. That is the beauty of so 'pagan' a religion as Hinduism. It actually transforms love (even vulgarity) into divine aspirations and makes it so sublime, bringing out the beauty and dedicate sensualism in the feelings a true pair of lovers have for each other, elevates it to the plane of divinity. It also sets a few standards about love, making it a strictly one to one affair.

Hinduism is most comparable to Open Source Movement. No central authority, a bazaar of movements, yet a cohesive unity.

When Indians protest St. Valentine's Day, it has nothing to do with the 'idea' of St. Valentine's Day or its spirit and meaning. It has much to do with the way the holiday is celebrated... with commercialism and western style cultural erosion of native values.

So next time, anyone has this urge to decry Hindus as a lot, comparing them to Muslims, please get your facts right... read a few love ballads from Hindu Scriptures and be happy

Enjoy Life..

Remember the four Goals of Human Life as taught by Hinduism:
1. Artha (Wealth earned by righteous ways, to be spent on family, charity and oneself: thus enjoying not just the material pleasures, but by giving away as charity, enjoying the fruits of name and fame too)

2. Kama (Sensual Love: Yeah, with one life-partner with whom you can enjoy sexuality in all its glories, beauties and sensualities)

3. Dharma (Righteosness in all aspects of life. Duty first and formost to oneself, to one's family, nation, society, fellow Humans, fellow living beings and the cosmos itself)

4. Moksha (Striving to attain everlasting peace and freedom.. freedom from causality, birth, death, suffering, pain and nature's binding bonds: Eternal Freedom rests in attaining and realising Brahman: THe Supreme and Eternal)

Good Day Ladies and Gentlemen.

themistocles · 03-07-2003, 01:30 PM

All the days to love except when they're rioting in the streets, burning down businesses, seperating the bodies of Muslims from their limbs, and starving their own.

I think our close proximity to the Great Crappiness known as Christianity (at least, here in the English speaking world) relieves us of remembering the fact how universally Crappy religions of all stripes are.

Sattwic · 03-07-2003, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by themistocles
All the days to love except when they're rioting in the streets, burning down businesses, seperating the bodies of Muslims from their limbs, and starving their own.

I think our close proximity to the Great Crappiness known as Christianity (at least, here in the English speaking world) relieves us of remembering the fact how universally Crappy religions of all stripes are.

So what exactly are you trying to say?
What is your case?

Atheist Leftists are blowing up women and children all over the world...

Humans of all stripes are universally crappy, whether they are of any religion or of no religion..

It is humans who are to be blamed.. their animalistic insticts to kill, make war and to produce suffering...
(And yes! humans also create some exclusivist religions like Islam, Heaven, 72 Houris, etc as reasons/justifications to kill others)

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

02-23-2003, 05:50 PM	#21
Seraphim Guest Posts: n/a	Seraphim, when you have freemixing, premarital sex is inevitable. We must learn to live with it. Besides do you think that such activites were not going on in past ages in India as well? On the other hand, arranged marriages have more to do with wanting a rational relationship and approval of family, which is very traditional. My reply : I'm no virgin myself ... but it had nothing to do with freemixing. To have sex with someone you love and wish to live the rest of your life with is noble and acceptable ... to have sex simply because it is because you like someone is ... well ... for me is unacceptable because there is consequences which young couples attend to overlook. What is the girl gets pregnant? Will the boy accept that responsibility? If the girl went to abortion, she will have to live with the guilt and scorn of the society around her for the rest of her life as well ... is she ready for that? Guys do not get much damage from all this freemixing stuff ... it is the girls' future who is in stake. And Yes, I do agree that such activity were conducted in the past, and accepting someone (in term of sexual) without marriage and such ceremony is simply a Kesatrian (Warrior's) practise. Why do you need ceremony when the two of you accepted each other by heart and have God as witness of your union? I doubt your freemixing culture has ANYTHING to do with Kesatrian code or God's approval on it. Shivsena is just a political party who decided to take up the cause of culture to get votes; so don't expect it to do anything useful. My reply : You have a lot of those in your country? People who is wasting a good cause on stages to get votes?

02-25-2003, 05:07 PM	#22
hinduwoman Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: India Posts: 6,977	Seraphim, I was not referring to Gandarva vivaha, but to the fact that premarital sex had always happened inspite of social restrictions. As for consequences, well, many do not think and others simply do not care even if they have to abort. Yes, most political parties in India are more interested in soundbytes, which is a very important reason why India is not progressing. India is developing in spite of her politicans!

02-25-2003, 11:29 PM	#23
Seraphim Guest Posts: n/a	Seraphim, I was not referring to Gandarva vivaha, but to the fact that premarital sex had always happened inspite of social restrictions. My reply : I was referring to Gandarva Vivaha, but I cannot comment whether freesex is something that actually occured in the past. My assumption is it didn't because various books which I read, including National Geograph accounts of early explorers which I found in the library and also in logical assumption that the pervious society in India were more attached to their customs that people now did. As for consequences, well, many do not think and others simply do not care even if they have to abort. My reply : That doesn't make it right or acceptable, does it? You want to tell your children to mix freely because the next person is doing it, despite of the risks and consequences? Take a look at the West and what free mixing among its people did for its society - AIDS, breakdown in marriage and teenagers not old enough to have a driving licence YET have babies to take care. You want such things to increase in your society? Yes, most political parties in India are more interested in soundbytes, which is a very important reason why India is not progressing. My suggestion : Reduce political parties and increase qualifications for a political candidates. Look at Japan and their political system as a good example - their ministers are treated as servant for publics and the publics actually can demand a person to step down if he doesn't do his job properly. India is developing in spite of her politicans! My reply : No offence, but I will wait till someone like Mahatma Gandhi to appear once again before I could think about coming over.

03-04-2003, 05:10 PM	#25
Seraphim Guest Posts: n/a	By andy_d Er, AIDS actually came from Africa, Seraphim, and Africa still accounts for something like 80% of new cases. You can't actually be suggesting that the west, or anybody, brought the disease upon themselves? Some kind of universal justice? If you are, that's pretty sick... My reply : I was referring to freemixing as ONE of the methods of spreading AIDS in a society, not where it came from. Only reason I can say why Africa is so high in AIDS's percentage is because people there uses less birth control contraptions (such as condoms) during sex (free sex or with married partners). As for Universal Justice ... I have not said anything, did I? If you think it is some kindda universal justice, then why don't you think about the crime you probably done rather than the punishment you had received.

03-04-2003, 08:45 PM	#26
Sattwic Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Pondicherry, India Posts: 28	Celebrating love eh? Well Hindu culture has not one day to celebrate love but plenty.. it is plain ignorace to say that Hindu/Indian culture does not celebrate love and needs a Saint Valentine's day to send out cards, little 'i love you ' goodies etc.. all with one thing in mind., to get laid. hey I did that too, sending cards, flowers and things. All for one purpose. You know it, I know it, no point in pussy footing over it. Valentine day today has no other significance than to show off, that too by buying the costliest, cutest and sincerest looking gifts... and hoping it will make an impression. Traditional Hindus celebrate the marriages and love stories of Gods... many of these festivals are centered on the theme of Love... and love making too. If one can understand the songs that accompany festivals celebrating love themes of Gods, you won't need a lesson more in the art of loving,.. forget Kamasutra. Hinduism celebrates all aspects of life and does not 'hate' any of it, be it passionate love or disspassionalte ascetism. That is the beauty of so 'pagan' a religion as Hinduism. It actually transforms love (even vulgarity) into divine aspirations and makes it so sublime, bringing out the beauty and dedicate sensualism in the feelings a true pair of lovers have for each other, elevates it to the plane of divinity. It also sets a few standards about love, making it a strictly one to one affair. Hinduism is most comparable to Open Source Movement. No central authority, a bazaar of movements, yet a cohesive unity. When Indians protest St. Valentine's Day, it has nothing to do with the 'idea' of St. Valentine's Day or its spirit and meaning. It has much to do with the way the holiday is celebrated... with commercialism and western style cultural erosion of native values. So next time, anyone has this urge to decry Hindus as a lot, comparing them to Muslims, please get your facts right... read a few love ballads from Hindu Scriptures and be happy Enjoy Life.. Remember the four Goals of Human Life as taught by Hinduism: 1. Artha (Wealth earned by righteous ways, to be spent on family, charity and oneself: thus enjoying not just the material pleasures, but by giving away as charity, enjoying the fruits of name and fame too) 2. Kama (Sensual Love: Yeah, with one life-partner with whom you can enjoy sexuality in all its glories, beauties and sensualities) 3. Dharma (Righteosness in all aspects of life. Duty first and formost to oneself, to one's family, nation, society, fellow Humans, fellow living beings and the cosmos itself) 4. Moksha (Striving to attain everlasting peace and freedom.. freedom from causality, birth, death, suffering, pain and nature's binding bonds: Eternal Freedom rests in attaining and realising Brahman: THe Supreme and Eternal) Good Day Ladies and Gentlemen.

03-07-2003, 01:30 PM	#27
themistocles Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: las vegas, nevada Posts: 670	All the days to love except when they're rioting in the streets, burning down businesses, seperating the bodies of Muslims from their limbs, and starving their own. I think our close proximity to the Great Crappiness known as Christianity (at least, here in the English speaking world) relieves us of remembering the fact how universally Crappy religions of all stripes are.

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.