Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Viti · 04-21-2003, 05:53 PM

I think it's your choice and there is no moral question attached to it.

All of my friends with children are divorced, all of them nasty....can't see how this is somehow preferable to having the child singly

openeyes · 04-21-2003, 06:44 PM

If you have the resources, financial and emotional, to raise a child on your own, I say it's ok.

I'm a single parent, not by choice, but I think one good parent can be as good as two so-so parents. Having kids makes me feel like a full participant in life, even more so than when I was a part of a couple.

As LadyShea pointed out, there are so many couples that don't work out and it can get downright destructive in many cases. So many men don't fulfill their responsibilities as equal parents, even in a marriage. I don't think you should have to forego an opportunity to become a mother because a compatible mate hasn't appeared if you can provide for a child on your own.

yguy · 04-21-2003, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Psycho Economist
So the rightness or wrongness are determined by the likelihood of harm in the statistical abstract?

You have it backwards. Right actions yield right results.

Quote:

Yes, having a male role-model is beneficial on average. Yes, being able to do good-cop / bad-cop is similarly "good".

Really? Sounds manipulative to me.

Quote:

She hasn't gotten many so far. Most of the discussion here seems to be centered on saying it's not necessarily a bad or good thing. If you want to counter-balance the positive responses you think are inevitable, what's the harm in waiting to see if they materialize?

What's the harm in NOT waiting?

Psycho Economist · 04-21-2003, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by yguy
Really? Sounds manipulative to me.

I was trying to be conciliatory. Pardon me.

In other news, I've started a new thread, in case you want to explain how you can adhere to Utilitarianism and Divine command ethics at the same time.

keyser_soze · 04-22-2003, 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Anna Karenina
Hello everybody,

I am struggling with myself with this question. I am 31, single and financially independent.

I have decided that I want to have a child . I met a guy over a message board and I met him in person too. He is the right guy, he is intelligent, humanist and anti-imperialist. We just disagree with our philosophical positions. I am going to ask him to be the father of my child. I don't know how he is going to react...I am scared...

I wonder if I am being selfish about bringing a child to satisfy my own needs. I also wonder if I am being too mean to decide on this guy's parental responsability and desires.

I am not going to ask him any financial or emotional support if he does not want to give them. I want to let him decide what his role will be. If he wants to have contact with us, perfect. If he does not, perfect. Although, I would love that he got involved with us in the future.

Is this decision morally acceptable? The only concern to me is whether or not there will be negative consequences for my child in the future.

Please opinions are welcome.

Anna

If you are independant, go for it. There is a significant portion of the population that are single parents(and a lot of them are christian...yeah I know yguy, they were never REAL christians or scotsmen for that matter), it may not be ideal...but it is reality. As to this guy? Dunno, don't know him, don't know you. FatherPhil's advice is sound, from my social work and psychology background I know that the number of children who need a home is staggering(obviously the fundies are right and same-sex marriage is going to destroy western culture...oh wait, it came pre-destroyed because it's made out of PEOPLE in the first place). But if you need to pass on your genetic code, then it will happen. Just love the kid, educate them, be honest with them..and it will turn out fine. Everyone's advice be damned, do what your heart tells you to do, and do the best you can with your options. That's all anyone can ask. I love being a father, and I love being a husband, but I would certainly do it by myself if necessary. There's no harm in it, bigots and fanatics aside, we wish you well. good luck.

Anna Karenina · 04-22-2003, 03:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Psycho Economist
Yguy, this isn't about whether a two-parent family is epidemiologically or psychologically any better than a single-parent family. It's about whether it's somehow intrinsically moral or immoral. We can all argue that to no firm end all day.

Exactly, from my POV my decision is morally right because I feel capable of providing a child a decent life (economically and emotionally speaking). My concern is about the child and father's perspectives about what Anna's plans.

Do you think that for them my action will be morally acceptable?

Quote:

But, I will agree with you that a child cannot "give" love, and any prospective parent who thinks this is the case will be disappointed. But this language on Anna's part may also be a shorthand for the other emotional experiences that come from raising a young child. She is the only person who can address that point regarding her own circumstances.

I am not having a child to give me love!

I do recognise that this is a selfish decision, but I am not the only one. A married couple are selfish too when they decide to have a child. So, we all have to be selfish in order to satisfy our own emotional needs whether or not we want to recognise the fact.

The circumstances that made me take this decision are many. It is pointless to discuss them, but the only thing that I can say is that I live in a very traditional and patriarchal society where I cannot fit.

Anna Karenina · 04-22-2003, 04:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by keyser_soze
If you are independant, go for it. There is a significant portion of the population that are single parents(and a lot of them are christian...yeah I know yguy, they were never REAL christians or scotsmen for that matter), it may not be ideal...but it is reality. As to this guy? Dunno, don't know him, don't know you. FatherPhil's advice is sound, from my social work and psychology background I know that the number of children who need a home is staggering(obviously the fundies are right and same-sex marriage is going to destroy western culture...oh wait, it came pre-destroyed because it's made out of PEOPLE in the first place).

Thanks for your comments.
As I said I think that I have no problem to accept the idea as the right choice. I cannot wait until my chances to have a healthy child got reduced.

As a psychologist, do you think that it can cause any emotional distress to this guy who I want to be the father?
I am assuming that a man who hardly knows me won't want to have any contact with us.

Anna Karenina · 04-22-2003, 04:21 AM

Quote:

Great. You had an absent father, and you're gonna give your kid the same handicap.

yguy,

I am saying that a father does not neccesarily imply that you will have a happy life as a child and adult!.

My father did not make my life better... I became who I am because of living in a family with an absent father.

braces_for_impact,

Did you ever blame your mother for not having a father?. Maybe in your mother's case this was not predetermined to be that way, but in my case it will be.

dangin,

As a sperm donor, what do you feel about knowing that there are children of your own that you don't even meet?.

Would it be different to you if a girl ask you to have sex in order to have a child?, what would the main difference be from just donating sperm in a Bank?
In this case, would you want to have contact with the child and the mother? I would love to hear your opinion.

fatherphil,

To be honest, I haven't thought about adopting a child. It is not just that I want to have a child, it has to be mine. Furthermore, the adoption process is long and tedious, I don't think that it would be easier for a single woman to adopt a child. Not in my country and in the society where I live.

babelfish, LadyShea and openeyes,

Thank you for your words. It makes me feel that I am not completely crazy about this idea.

Anna

keyser_soze · 04-22-2003, 04:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Anna Karenina
Thanks for your comments.
As I said I think that I have no problem to accept the idea as the right choice. I cannot wait until my chances to have a healthy child got reduced.
This I understand, the older you get, the higher the risks.

As a psychologist, do you think that it can cause any emotional distress to this guy who I want to be the father?
I WAS a psychologist and social worker. I now work with computers, one too many crack heads followed me home...But yes, I think it will affect him. But you can do no less than broach the subject. I think in vitro with a decent selection of candidates would be a better choice, and safer in the long run. Such a large percentage of children grow up in one parent households anyway, I cannot really see where you feel the obligation to have a male figure involved. If he is agreeable, make sure you get an ironclad "pre-nup" as it were. You may find this difficult to do, but remember, people change their minds, and who's to say that in 4 years he does not decide that he wants joint custody? Sure, he's nice now, but that can always change. And speaking as a parent, you will NOT want someone who has become a stranger to get your child for weekends and a month in the summer. There is danger in this, but not in a sperm donor. A bonus is that you can select characteristics for your child this way be choosing the male donor selectively....yeah, fundies....I know, whine "it's not natural" all you want, but it's reality.

I am assuming that a man who hardly knows me won't want to have any contact with us. I think a bigger worry, as I stated above is that he WILL

keyser_soze · 04-22-2003, 04:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Anna Karenina

My father did not make my life better... I became who I am because of living in a family with an absent father.
But millions grow up decent without fathers, it's really a subjective statement...

fatherphil,

To be honest, I haven't thought about adopting a child. It is not just that I want to have a child, it has to be mine. Furthermore, the adoption process is long and tedious, I don't think that it would be easier for a single woman to adopt a child. Not in my country and in the society where I live.

*hint* Foster care, with intent to adopt*end hint*

Anna

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04-21-2003, 05:53 PM	#21
Viti Contributor Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Down South Posts: 12,879	I think it's your choice and there is no moral question attached to it. All of my friends with children are divorced, all of them nasty....can't see how this is somehow preferable to having the child singly

04-21-2003, 06:44 PM	#22
openeyes Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Minnesota Posts: 4,215	If you have the resources, financial and emotional, to raise a child on your own, I say it's ok. I'm a single parent, not by choice, but I think one good parent can be as good as two so-so parents. Having kids makes me feel like a full participant in life, even more so than when I was a part of a couple. As LadyShea pointed out, there are so many couples that don't work out and it can get downright destructive in many cases. So many men don't fulfill their responsibilities as equal parents, even in a marriage. I don't think you should have to forego an opportunity to become a mother because a compatible mate hasn't appeared if you can provide for a child on your own.

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