Aravnah Ornan

In my case, it was a combination of the two. It wasn't my choice that the Bible contradicts itself, science, and archeology. It wasn't my choice that neither intelligent design nor an omnimax deity explains what we see around us. It wasn't my choice that prayers go unanswered, that faith healing doesn't work, and that in churches that teach Divine healing and Divine prosperity, most of the congregants are sick and broke. It wasn't my choice that Christians can read the same Bible, supposedly under the guidance of the same Holy Spirit, and come up with so many mutually exclusive sets of doctrines. It was my choice to open my eyes and finally see.

Annabel Lee

I've known Christians who have lost faith due to the actions of other Christians.
Not so much what they do but what they say.

Right now, today as a matter of fact, there are at least three threads on a Christian forum about Hell. Trying to speak to a Hell believing Christian about the inherent unfairness of Hell is near to impossible.
You can actually see the brick wall go up.

It is impossible to reconcile the NT God with the OT God. So you have a choice..you can keep your faith, albeit modified, Deism, Gnositicsm or Universalism. You can throw your hands up in the air and admit their is a problem with Christiainity and that you no longer want to be a member of that club.
Withdraw your membership and get out while you still have your sanity and your self respect.

I don't know.

Carol Massey

:notworthy Thank you Rima, but I am puzzled. Why on earth (or in heaven's name) would you think that we would not understand?

Surely you don't think that the unbelievers love only those who are worthy!

The fact that our perception may be different does not mean that our ability to extend love and compassion, or receive it is any different than a person of religious orientation.

Secular Pinoy

I discovered that the Catholic and Protestant bibles do not have the same number of books, I researched about bible history, christian history, and doctrinal differences among christians, and came to the conclusion that it's all made up.

Carol Massey

Here's an interesting tidbit about the books Secular Pinoy, from The Hidden Gospel: Search for the Aramaic Jesus, written by Neil Douglas-Klotz....

When Charlemange couldn't control the many and varied Christian groups, he decided that organizing Christianity would be a powerful political tool to police the population, so he decreed that there would be a meeting of the different groups of Christians and they would all bring their recorded histories of the works of Jesus (there were hundreds of them). So bring them they did, and they were placed in a room on the floor, stacks and stacks of them, and Charlemange informed them that the room would be locked and that in the morning the books which had been placed on the table by a divine hand would become the Gospels.....

Abra cadabra! The next morning when all the religious heads entered the room there on the table were the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John....

A very interesting book....

tribalbeeyatch

No sole and no spirit? Wouldn't that make you more like a sober man who has lost his shoes?

Ronin

Originally posted by Rima

Why do theists/deists/mytics always want to sweet talk me in an attempt to make their point...more disingenuous flatulation will get you nowhere, rima.

Get a little more real and let's talk.

At assorted times in my life I write fiction, poetry and (as a police officer and violent crimes detective) case facts to horrendous crimes...I dream at night, have assorted aspirations and act out of a compassion for the human condition as selflessly as I can, rima...that is much more than acting only on the 'needs and pleasures' of life, but not 'spiritual' as the common notion is percieved as some sort of supernatural condition.

What more do you percieve I lack?

Utter meaningless mumbo jumbo.

Somebody is real and would deserve appreciation for their thoughtful gift.

My parent's sweat and beers provided the gifts you are articulating and I do not refer to them as 'Him'... as that would be too creepy.

In this wondrous universe I have yet to perceive a 'first cause'...rather I can behold a constant and perpetual flux of interdependent co-arising...no Deity required.

My emotions and my sense of identity are maintained within my brain.

I am always open to any evidence offered to support the many absurd claims of theists...including mystics, such as yourself...I simply find your perspective unnecessary to explain the beauty, horror and ambiguity of nature in plain view.

You have shown in other posts the complete unreliablity of that request...and it would also be far to selfish of me to accept, so I decline your wizardly attempt at wishmaking.

Stay safe and take care.

Rational BAC

Sounds like a storybook to me. Charlemagne circa 800 AD or so?

Think what you say was done essentially, but it was done maybe 500 years before that.

Carol Massey

Rational BAC

I wouldn't know for a fact, I only read the book.

openeyes

That's basically how it happened with me. Since honesty is a virtue that is taught in the religion in which I was raised, I couldn't win, since I honestly couldn't believe anymore.

All the other contradictions became much more noticeable after I found I couldn't believe. People have a way of ignoring the negatives of their religion and tend not to point it out to their kids, even if they are aware of them.