Dr Rick

It's just another strawman.

Rick

Daggah

And he STILL doesn't have any I like.

ju'iblex

actually, knowledge is NOT power, but those who have the power create the knowledge. Therefore, if God is omnipotent then he would be omniscient as well. But youre right, both still go hand-in-hand. And you cannot have one without the other.

Fiach

It certainly is counterintuitive that an innocent man Jesus should die for the hypothetical sin of an early ancestral couple. It is absolutely absurd that an innocent man should die for people not yet born and may die at birth never having a chance to sin.

I don't think that Jesus saw it that way either. On the cross, he said, "My God, My God, why hast THOU forsaken ME." This is the most important verse in the N.T. It says two things. First Jesus is talking to another who is called God. If that other is God, it says that Jesus is not God. If he were a son of god in a trinity he would perhaps have addressed the father. But no, Jesus addresses God as THOU and identifies himself as ME. So Jesus is admitting that he is not god.

Then he states clearly that he feels he has been forsaken. That means he didn't know the details of the fecking plan. He didn't expect things to turn out this way, nailed on a stick. He expected at the very least to be rescued by God. When God didn't show up for the show, Jesus felt justifiably forsaken. This shows his limited knowledge of the future. Jesus was not omniscient.

Remember that Satan or Lucifer took him up on a high mountaiin top and showed Jesus all of the nations of the world. He couldn't see all of the spherical planet at "a moment in time." Assuming that he was in the Middle East, he could not see over the arc of the planet to Japan, Java, New Zealand Maori nations, Tasmania, the Meso-American or Andean Indian empires of the first century. It is likely that he couldn't see Ireland, South Africa/Zimbabwe, or east Siberian Chukchi, or the fisher and whaling culture nations of the Northwest American Salish, Kwakiutl, and Makah. In short Jesus didn't know or his writer didn't know that the earth is a sphere even though Aristothenes measured the arc in Egypt in the 4th Century BC measuring the Earths circumference to within a few percentage points of error.

Fiach

Radorth

Ah, so you finally admit I answered them but you don't like the answers. Just as I said.

That is the question I said I answered. I specifically answered why Jesus died the way he did in a post to Dr Rick. You didn't read the thread, Jayjay, or you are just lying.

Rad

Dr Rick

It does not logically follow from the axioms of power creating knowledge that omnipotence requires omniscience. On the other hand, if a being cannot make himself non-omniscient, then that being has limits to what he can do and so is not omnipotent.

Rick

Yellum Notnef

My questions for Radorth remain unanswered.

Why are you ignoring me Radorth? I thought you had an answer for all our questions. Why not be a man and just admit that you made that nonsense up about where the sin Jesus had to pay for came from.

Fiach

"You have consistently avoided answering the question, why did God need to use crucifixion instead of some other method?"

I'll take a stab at it. Jesus if he existed at all, supposedly was executed for treason (asserting to be King of the Jews) in Roman Empire province. The Romans used crucifixion. The earlier Jesus Ben Pandira convicted of sorcery a century earlier was stoned to death because that was how semites then and now kill people.

If Jesus had been executed in 1950 it would have been an electic chair. and fundies would all be wearing little gold electric chairs on their necklaces or lapel pins.

If Jesus were executed in Texas of 2000, all of the fundies would be wearing a figure of a man strapped to a gurney with an intravenous line in his arm, and an electrical IV pump.

In the year 2150, Jesus would not be executed. He would have an MRI scan, advanced model that scans synapses and circuits. They would just bore a hole in his temple and a metal tube to insert a microchip into his amygdala.

Fiach

beyelzu

If Jesus had to die for our sins, why did he have to be executed for our sins. Why not die in his sleep.

If god is omnipotent, why does he need anything, up to and including needing his only son to die for our sins.

Your answer addresses neither point.

Fiach

No, I was trying to show the stupidity of the entire Jesus myth. My answer to why Jesus had to die for our sins is multi-part.
Jesus was most likely a mythical figure who never existed. I think he was a composite of Mithra, Aten, Sol Invictus, Horus, Osiris, and Apollonius and other god-human heroes who die and resurrect. Paul constructed the ridiculous myth of Jesus from fragments of various eastern mystery cults especially Mithraism.

The Idea that God who set up Adam and Eve to sin by seeking knowledge is an unjust cosmic tyrant for punishing Adam and Eve and God is insanely vindictive in punishing Adams supposed descendents. His plan to let humanity atone by having his own son killed is totally psychotic in its very concept. In short it is a stupid question and I gave an irreverent answer.

Fiach