beth

I see the reverse argument posed by Christians often. They suggest we argue against God's existence because we really believe, but are angry or hardened toward God. Well, I wonder if the theists argue for a God simply because they constantly have to reaffirm their belief in God. I have never seen good argument posed by a theist, for a God, that did not include some sort of opinion, manipulation, or threat to back up their claim.

tdekeyser

I agree. It is really amazing how a human brain can distort reality to foster a belief. It must have been beneficial in our evolution to have such a mechanism.

Do ya think that is why they are so passionate about school prayer and breaking down the wall of CS separation?

I mean if god were real, then we would not have to have national debates/laws on prayer and stuff. God would be there SO much that inserting him into every second of everyone's lives would not be necassary.

dublczek

If you fill your fridge with fish and have no more room for anything else, and today's topic just so happens to be "what's in the fridge?", guess what the discussion will be about.

Jamie_L

Atheism is not a positive stance. It is a negative reaction to a positive claim. It's this fact that sends Christians into arguements with atheists.

Let me explain.

If an atheist says "I am an atheist" to a Christian, it is tantamount to saying: "I think your most cherished belief is a falsehood." In many cases, it seems, this can come across as a personal attack against the Christian. And in some way, it is. Merely by being atheists, we at minimum accuse Christians of being wrong, or worse accuse them of being uncritical, deluded sheep. Just by saying "I am an atheist."

What do most people do when they feel they are being attacked? Counterattck! We all feel the need to defend our positions when somebody questions them. It just so happens that saying "I am an atheist" to a Christian also questions them. And not just something small or insignificant - by existing we question the beliefs around which they build their whole life.

Oddly enough, the exclusive nature of most religions should mean that the same is true when a Hindu says "I am Hindu" to a Christian. For some reason, this isn't usually the case. I think maybe it's because it's become taboo to attack people for their religion - you know, diversity, discrimination and all. But atheism isn't a religion. It's just a statement that says "you're wrong". So, it's easier and more comfortable for a Christian to launch into a theological debate with an atheist than with a Muslim or a Hindu.

This is one of the reasons I'm usually not outspoken about my atheism. I generally don't like attacking the beliefs of strangers without provocation or consent, and I know that's what it would feel like if I were to pipe up in the middle of a dinner party and say "I'm an atheist."

Jamie

spurly

Jamie, there is a lot of truth in what you have written. Personally, I am not one who likes to argue, I prefer the word discuss. However some Christians, expecially insecure ones, will argue because they feel like they are being attacked or God is being attacked.

Kevin

tdekeyser

Ummmm.....I'm not sure the responsibility lies on the 'one who needs proof (atheist).

If a faithful person gets defensive just because I proclaim I am an atheist, then the problem is theirs, not mine.

Think about it-

You can claim all kinds of things and people accept that (mostly). I ride Japanese motorcycle excusively and never ride American. When I have discussions with Harley riders (I do a lot), they may tell me what is good about their bike vs. mine, but they do not get defensive.......unless they "knew" I was right and did not want to accept the truth.

xian

strange, i wonder the exact oppositte:

why are atheists so inexorably tied to the Christian religion?

To be a slave of Christianity is this:

one who does not agree with Christainity AND devotes a significant portion of his/her life into fighting it.

Basically the bulk of the people you will find on these websties:

www.landoverbaptist.com
www.atheistnetwork.com
www.infidels.org
www.atheists.com


these people believe that:
1) this short life is all you have
2) The Christian God is no different than an invisible pink unicorn


yet they literally DEVOTE themselves- their energy, their time,.....their very lives...against this very thing they reject. They do so with emotional fervor.
WHerever Christianity goes....there they are following like dogs on a leash...shackled and bound....bonded into slavery.

For some people....like Dan Barker, Farrel Till...I see them as men on their knees chained to the Cross of Jesus...unable to escape. They are NOT free from Christianity...they are defined by it. Their lives, inexorably tied to the Christian religion; so much so, that if you removed Christianity from their lives, there would be little remaining.

My heart cries for these people. It saddens me to see such a waste of life. WHy do people waste their lives in this manner? Rather than spend so much precious time putting your energy into something that you reject....put that energy into something you can live FOR.

they might be happier as a result.

but for now, they are slaves. Slaves to Christianity.

For a Christian, to debate with an atheist is not as much of a waste of time, since we have all eternity to exist (though I will concede that it is a waste)...but for the atheist, every single minute that ticks away arguing against a unicorn is precious life slipping....slipping.....slipping into oblivion as they inch ever closer to cessation. Now, this seems like utter futility to me. Go live your life....free yourself from the chains that bind you to the cross. A Buddhist who grows up in a Christian culture...with the same exposure to Christianity that an atheist has....will probably not even give Jesus a passing thought in a day. HIs brain...his life...is FREE from Christianity. He doesn't waste a single bit of energy contemplating it. He doesn't stay awake at night consumed by it. But this is not the case with SOME (not all of course) atheists who are consumed by Christianity so much so, that they are more saturated by it than many evangelicals.

This is my personal observation. Yours may differ

Rhea

That's because the goodness of their bike doesn't RESTS UPON the assertion that your bike is bad. They don't have to PROVE your bike is bad to prove their claim. They know what they like. And it's what they like. And the fact that yours is different doesn't have any effect on what they like. Your bike doesn't even have to exist for them to still know what they like.

The Christian belief, OTOH, requires that they name everything else "wrong". And if they make that claim, they can't be shown to be wrong because their belief RESTS UPON you being wrong. It doesn't rest upon itself. Christians will say it over and over again. Good requires evil. So now they have to make it clear what's evil. They MUST call you evil because they have to call somebody evil or they can't be good.

tdekeyser

My response to that is this:

We are not chained to that faith or obssesed with it. That faith ATTACKS us straight out and we must defend ourselves and the constitition.

I had lunch with Dan Barker, so i know a bit about him. He is a little bit consumed with it and I thought I saw a bit of anger there because he wasted so many years of his life, so you may be right in some aspects.

xian

Christianity does not attack you. How? unless you perceive a mormon guy knocking on your door as an attack....? I can understand the desire to voice out politically, but that is not the same as all these endless debates, websites, and being consumed with fervent emotion in something that you completely disregard. I am a staunt supporter of the republican party. I listen to Michael Savage daily. Yet I only listen to him on my way home from work (40 minutes worth) and I do not spend my life going to rallies and arguing futily with democrats in any significant measure. As a recreational past time....but certainly nothing I do with any amount of significance.