conkermaniac

How do you know that Satan wasn't the one who came up with the idea of recording "God's word" in the first place?

How do you know that the book was compiled over a period of 3000 years?

Hey, Magus, I just discovered that pigs in China can fly! Of course, we all know that China exists, and we can easily find pigs that exist in China -- therefore, pigs can fly! Amazing.

Doctor X

If he reads some of the recommended scholarly texts on biblical archaeology, he may even be divested of the belief that pigs fly.

Okay . . . apologies for "taunting"--I will own up to it--but I think making sweeping statements like that in the face of evidence posted to the contrary--published evidence to the contrary--is irresponsible.

--J.D.

Secular Pinoy

Welcome to the fundamentalist mindset.

Kilgore Trout

Magus55 said:
The reason the bible takes a PhD and a lifetime of studying to understand is because it so such a mess and so full of holes that you need to study up on all the apologetic excuses for these problems.

Christians just use the classic circular argument to know the bible is the word of god. "We know the bible is the word of god because it says it is, and we know it's not lying because god wouldn't lie!"

There is no way they are going to admit that they were duped into believing in this jesus character, so they pretend there is no possible way that the devil or a con man wrote any part of the bible. They forget that MEN had to decide what actually went into the bible. Even Jesus says that the devil will use very clever ways to deceive the faithful.

The holy spirit is another circular argument. They know they are talking to the holy spirit because he said he was the holy spirit, and they know he isn't lying because the holy spirit doesn't lie.

Soul Invictus

Magus55,

I noticed you don't reply all too often to my replies...I was wondering why. I would value your opinion on this particular thread though, since you did make a few claims that I wish to address.

I posted a thread over in Philo about objectivity vs subjectivity...you might want to check it out.

You stated that God would not allow Satan to corrupt the Bible. What evidence do you have to support that assertion? I ask because two examples I can think of off hand is God allowing Satan to attempt to tempt Jesus (Matthew 4) and most critically God allowed Satan to tempt Eve (Genesis 3) These are but two proofs I can offer to support the assertion that God would be consistent in allowing for his word to tampered. Only his true believers would have the spirit of discernment (or Holy Spirit for sake of a better term) to distinguish His words from man's agenda, after all won't many be deceived ?

Whether you think con men are capable or not, we have to be careful in comparing our subjective inclinations with objective facts.

Your posts show that your walk with God is important to you, however I'm wondering if you'd go as far as to refute some of the following:

Council of Nicea- establishes the divinity of Jesus. defining against Arius the true Divinity of the Son of God (homoousios), and the fixing of the date for keeping Easter (against the Quartodecimans). Prior to this, Jesus' divinity wasn't anywhere near an operating protocol as it is today. Actually it appeared to be just as much, if not more operating that Jesus was not divine, (prior to the ecumenical councils.)

Council of Ephesus - declared Mary the mother of Jesus (God)

I wish I could articulate factual instances in which much of what people believe now was purported by people in power. To say this did not occur would be feckless, or being willfully ignorant. If you find any of this information new, maybe some of the more knowledgable IIDB members could help out on this end...

You also stated that many of the events and places in the Bible are proven through archaeology. Places -yes. I doubt there will be much semantical debate over the actually places, as IMO its perfectly rational and plausible that the people who wrote the texts were writing in reference to their geographical location. The recording of the events is what causes the critical eye. Where is the worldwide account for the great flood? Surely archaeology should corroborate an event as this. What about the walls of Jericho falling down? Have they found those walls yet? You in no way think that events that those writers and people experienced weren't biased, exaggerated, or embellished? Is this your stance?

You also said that there are extra biblical accounts of Jesus, his crucifiction under Pontius Pilate, the Apostles etc. My beliefs are modified to the extent that I am exposed to new information, unknown to me. If you have any references/sources, please share. I ask other board members for sources for their claims; so I'll ask you as well. Same for corrboration on the biblical events too. I'd like to know which events in particular are corroborated.

I sincerely hope you reply this time....I haven't been able to frequent this forum as often as before...