Freethought & Rationalism Archive

SLD · 07-08-2003, 07:23 AM

I confess utter astonishment that people believe the most bizarre things that are so demonstrably false. People believe that the earth is only about 10,000 years old; millions believe that Joseph Smith accurately translated Egyptian heiroglyphics and that the Mormon Temple rites have no relation whatsoever to masonic rites, and that somewhere there is evidence of an ancient Amerindian civilization that was Christian.

Countless others believe that they see apparitions of the Virgin Mary in brick walls, pizzas, and what not. Others believe that water from a fountain will cure cancer, that God talks directly to Ernest Angely and a variety of other ministers.

Millions believe that the earth was populated by aliens millions of years ago and that these creatures still cause problems for us today.

And of course hundreds of millions of people believe, on the flimsiest of evidence that about 2,000 years ago a crucified man rose from the grave.

And I'm not just talking about ignorant simple people, but college educated people who've actually taken courses on the subjects and still refuse to abandon their painfully obviously wrong belief systems. Why?

I mean I can understand uneducated, generally semi-literate people believing such stuff - especially prior to the advent of modern science. But in this day and age, what gives? Why continue to believe bizarre things that are so easily demonstrated as false? I remember reading an incident in a church, where a magician caught a minister performing "miracles" (I forget the details), the magician exposed the fraud for what he was. But the bizarre part of this story is that the parishioners were not grateful for having this dupe exposed to them, but instead turned their wrath on this magician and drove him from the church.

Christian deDuve, the nobel prize winning biologist, states simply that people would rather believe than know. We'd rather cling to our closely held beliefs, even in the face of their clear demise. We can't let go of them, but again, why? What is it in the human psyche that makes us cling to such beliefs?

Oh well, food for thought. Enough ranting for now.

SLD

Jamie_L · 07-08-2003, 07:34 AM

People want to feel good (happy, safe, secure, important, etc. - the definition of "good" here is vague and loose). It is one of the most fundamental drives we have, and it colors just about all our perceptions. Beliefs can make people feel good in such a powerful way that it makes those beliefs difficult to let go of. When you believe in something very strongly, you can interpret evidence differently. This isn't necessarily a conscious "turning a blind eye", but something both more subtle and more powerful.

People also have a finite amount of mental resources to devote to their lives. Many choose not to devote those resources to figuring out complex solutions to problems of their lives, especially when more simple beliefs seem to solve the same problems for them. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." Well, many beliefs "work" for people. Why would they want to abandon that belief and start over again trying to creating a new mental framework that "works"?

Jamie

Radcliffe Emerson · 07-08-2003, 08:56 AM

I too can't believe the idiotic superstitious, supernatural things people believe.
I used to actually believe the Chicago Cubs would win another World Series.
How stupid is that?

architect · 07-08-2003, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SLD

Millions believe that the earth was populated by aliens millions of years ago and that these creatures still cause problems for us today.
SLD

I've never heard that one. Can you elaborate?

The previous posters are right; people are scared of the unknown. They fill in the gaps with the supernatural or simply make things up as they go. It's nearly impossible for someone in our culture to say, "I have no idea or I don't know". It makes them feel stupid and vulnerable.

I would highly recommend this book:
"Why People Believe Weird Things: Pseudoscience, Superstition, and Other Confusions of Our Time" by Michael Shermer

Mageth · 07-08-2003, 09:47 AM

I highly recommend Shermer's book as well. Make sure you get a later edition that has the added chapter, "Why Smart People Believe Weird Things."

Pyrrho · 07-08-2003, 09:49 AM

There are numerous reasons (causes) for why people believe ridiculous things; here are a few:

1. Many people are taught nonsense at an early age, when young and impressionable. Most religious people are indoctrinated at an early age, and believe based on that. Such early lessons can be extremely difficult to 'unlearn'.

2. Most people are never taught logic or critical thinking skills or scientific thinking very well, and those who are, are usually taught these things at a much later age than would be ideal. So, they would need to apply these things to other beliefs that are already deeply ingrained in them, which is difficult to do. After all, the critical thinking skills are almost always less deeply ingrained than the ridiculous beliefs. And again, most people never receive much training on these matters, so they are unable to tell the difference between reason and a hole in the ground.

3. Many ridiculous things are psychologically appealing. David Hume observed this fact:

Quote:

The maxim, by which we commonly conduct ourselves in our reasonings, is, that the objects, of which we have no experience, resemble those, of which we have; that what we have found to be most usual is always most probable; and that where there is an opposition of arguments, we ought to give the preference to such as are founded on the greatest number of past observations. But though, in proceeding by this rule, we readily reject any fact which is unusual and incredible in an ordinary degree; yet in advancing farther, the mind observes not always the same rule; but when any thing is affirmed utterly absurd and miraculous, it rather the more readily admits of such a fact, upon account of that very circumstance, which ought to destroy all its authority. The passion of surprize and wonder, arising from miracles, being an agreeable emotion, gives a sensible tendency towards the belief of those events, from which it is derived. And this goes so far, that even those who cannot enjoy this pleasure immediately, nor can believe those miraculous events, of which they are informed, yet love to partake of the satisfaction at second-hand or by rebound, and place a pride and delight in exciting the admiration of others.

With what greediness are the miraculous accounts of travellers received, their descriptions of sea and land monsters, their relations of wonderful adventures, strange men, and uncouth manners? But if the spirit of religion join itself to the love of wonder, there is an end of common sense; and human testimony, in these circumstances, loses all pretensions to authority. A religionist may be an enthusiast, and imagine he sees what has no reality: He may

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know his narrative to be false, and yet persevere in it, with the best intentions in the world, for the sake of promoting so holy a cause: Or even where this delusion has not place, vanity, excited by so strong a temptation, operates on him more powerfully than on the rest of mankind in any other circumstances; and self-interest with equal force. His auditors may not have, and commonly have not, sufficient judgment to canvass his evidence: What judgment they have, they renounce by principle, in these sublime and mysterious subjects: Or if they were ever so willing to employ it, passion and a heated imagination disturb the regularity of its operations. Their credulity encreases his impudence: And his impudence overpowers their credulity.

http://www.etext.leeds.ac.uk/hume/ehu/ehupbsb.htm

4. Many frauds have been committed to provide "evidence" for ridiculous beliefs. After listing several examples, Hume observes:

Quote:

The wise lend a very academic faith to every report which favours the passion of the reporter; whether it magnifies his country, his family, or himself, or in any other way strikes in with his natural inclinations and propensities. But what greater temptation than to appear a missionary, a prophet, an ambassador from heaven? Who would not encounter many dangers and difficulties, in order to attain so sublime a character? Or if, by the help of vanity and a heated imagination, a man has first made a convert of himself, and entered seriously into the delusion; who ever scruples to make use of pious frauds, in support of so holy and meritorious a cause?

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http://www.etext.leeds.ac.uk/hume/ehu/ehupbsb.htm

5. People are pathetically stupid beings. Most people are under the delusion that people are rational and intelligent, but it is obvious that the actual evidence supports a contrary conclusion. But, this delusion flatters people (see # 3 above), so they are apt to believe it. This is known as "wishful thinking", which has very little to do with thinking, and a lot to do with wishing. It is also supported by such authorities as Aristotle, though even he was intelligent enough to not suppose that most people were rational; he is often misquoted and/or quoted out of context.

Given the fact that the evidence strongly supports the conclusion that people are pathetically stupid, the common belief that people have that people are intelligent is further evidence of their gross stupidity. There is hardly any fact supported by as much evidence as the fact that people are appallingly stupid.

thebeave · 07-08-2003, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SLD

I mean I can understand uneducated, generally semi-literate people believing such stuff - especially prior to the advent of modern science. But in this day and age, what gives? Why continue to believe bizarre things that are so easily demonstrated as false? I remember reading an incident in a church, where a magician caught a minister performing "miracles" (I forget the details), the magician exposed the fraud for what he was. But the bizarre part of this story is that the parishioners were not grateful for having this dupe exposed to them, but instead turned their wrath on this magician and drove him from the church.

SLD

That magician was James "The Amazing" Randi, and he exposed Rev. Peter Popoff who claimed to be receiving worshippers' names from God, when actually he was receiving them via radio through a secret earplug. IIRC, Randi was in the audience and had his own little secret scanner/receiver and picked up on the transmissions himself. Popoff was disgraced for a while, but made somewhat of a comeback a few years later.

paul30 · 07-08-2003, 01:03 PM

A couple of decades ago, Lawrence Kohlberg did a study of people's moral development.

He found that people all develop through the same stages, but some stop at a certain stage. The first stage is reward-punishment. The second is group-identification. The third is independent evaluation.

The adults who "stop" at particular stages form a bell-shaped curve. Most people are in the middle, the group-identification stage. They get their morals from their group, and they accept them.

I think people's belief systems are similar. Most people believe whatever they are taught, because it makes them fit in with their peers. They do not question the beliefs, because the beliefs are not important in themselves, but only as group-markers. Much less do they examine the reasoning (?) behind the beliefs.

This is why many people believe George W. Bush is telling the truth, even when there are abundant reasons to think he lies. Many cannot countenance such a thought because it would (they think) destroy their all-important group identification.

Any thoughts on this?

:boohoo:

SLD · 07-08-2003, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by architect
I've never heard that one. Can you elaborate?

Well, IIRC, that's Scientology. Right?

SLD

SLD · 07-08-2003, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by architect

The previous posters are right; people are scared of the unknown. They fill in the gaps with the supernatural or simply make things up as they go. It's nearly impossible for someone in our culture to say, "I have no idea or I don't know". It makes them feel stupid and vulnerable.

I would highly recommend this book:
"Why People Believe Weird Things: Pseudoscience, Superstition, and Other Confusions of Our Time" by Michael Shermer

I do understand some of that from the perspective of people who are truly uneducated and not very intelligent. But so many people are not throwing up their hands and saying I don't care to know, but instead are studying subjects such as evolutionary biology and still not believing it? I mean there are people with Ph.D.s in the subject on the staff of the ICR!! How can they be so willfully blind.

I should look at Shermer's book, and follow Mageth's advice on getting the later edition. Shermer came by a local university a few weeks ago and I thoroughly enjoyed his lecture but didn't come away with a sense of why smart people believe such silly stuff.

Thanks for the insights.

SLD

07-08-2003, 07:23 AM	#1
SLD Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Birmingham, Alabama Posts: 4,109	Why do people believe really stupid things? I confess utter astonishment that people believe the most bizarre things that are so demonstrably false. People believe that the earth is only about 10,000 years old; millions believe that Joseph Smith accurately translated Egyptian heiroglyphics and that the Mormon Temple rites have no relation whatsoever to masonic rites, and that somewhere there is evidence of an ancient Amerindian civilization that was Christian. Countless others believe that they see apparitions of the Virgin Mary in brick walls, pizzas, and what not. Others believe that water from a fountain will cure cancer, that God talks directly to Ernest Angely and a variety of other ministers. Millions believe that the earth was populated by aliens millions of years ago and that these creatures still cause problems for us today. And of course hundreds of millions of people believe, on the flimsiest of evidence that about 2,000 years ago a crucified man rose from the grave. And I'm not just talking about ignorant simple people, but college educated people who've actually taken courses on the subjects and still refuse to abandon their painfully obviously wrong belief systems. Why? I mean I can understand uneducated, generally semi-literate people believing such stuff - especially prior to the advent of modern science. But in this day and age, what gives? Why continue to believe bizarre things that are so easily demonstrated as false? I remember reading an incident in a church, where a magician caught a minister performing "miracles" (I forget the details), the magician exposed the fraud for what he was. But the bizarre part of this story is that the parishioners were not grateful for having this dupe exposed to them, but instead turned their wrath on this magician and drove him from the church. Christian deDuve, the nobel prize winning biologist, states simply that people would rather believe than know. We'd rather cling to our closely held beliefs, even in the face of their clear demise. We can't let go of them, but again, why? What is it in the human psyche that makes us cling to such beliefs? Oh well, food for thought. Enough ranting for now. SLD

07-08-2003, 01:03 PM	#8
paul30 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Atlanta, GA USA Posts: 870	Kohlberg A couple of decades ago, Lawrence Kohlberg did a study of people's moral development. He found that people all develop through the same stages, but some stop at a certain stage. The first stage is reward-punishment. The second is group-identification. The third is independent evaluation. The adults who "stop" at particular stages form a bell-shaped curve. Most people are in the middle, the group-identification stage. They get their morals from their group, and they accept them. I think people's belief systems are similar. Most people believe whatever they are taught, because it makes them fit in with their peers. They do not question the beliefs, because the beliefs are not important in themselves, but only as group-markers. Much less do they examine the reasoning (?) behind the beliefs. This is why many people believe George W. Bush is telling the truth, even when there are abundant reasons to think he lies. Many cannot countenance such a thought because it would (they think) destroy their all-important group identification. Any thoughts on this? :boohoo:

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07-08-2003, 07:34 AM	#2
Jamie_L Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: U.S. Posts: 2,565	People want to feel good (happy, safe, secure, important, etc. - the definition of "good" here is vague and loose). It is one of the most fundamental drives we have, and it colors just about all our perceptions. Beliefs can make people feel good in such a powerful way that it makes those beliefs difficult to let go of. When you believe in something very strongly, you can interpret evidence differently. This isn't necessarily a conscious "turning a blind eye", but something both more subtle and more powerful. People also have a finite amount of mental resources to devote to their lives. Many choose not to devote those resources to figuring out complex solutions to problems of their lives, especially when more simple beliefs seem to solve the same problems for them. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." Well, many beliefs "work" for people. Why would they want to abandon that belief and start over again trying to creating a new mental framework that "works"? Jamie

07-08-2003, 08:56 AM	#3
Radcliffe Emerson Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: the dark side of Mars Posts: 1,309	I too can't believe the idiotic superstitious, supernatural things people believe. I used to actually believe the Chicago Cubs would win another World Series. How stupid is that?

07-08-2003, 09:47 AM	#5
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	I highly recommend Shermer's book as well. Make sure you get a later edition that has the added chapter, "Why Smart People Believe Weird Things."

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