Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Toto · 11-18-2002, 01:21 PM

I posted this in MRD, but it didn't excite any interest. Perhaps this is the right forum.

I wasn't aware that Hindus still practiced animal sacrifice.

<a href="http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-bali16nov16.story" target="_blank">Balinese Gather to Purge Bombing Site of Evil with Hindu Prayer, Animal Sacrifice</a> (LA Times requires free registration)

Quote:

. . .One priest, seemingly in a trance, slashed the throat of a pig and drank blood from the animal's neck. At a nearby ceremonial site at Kuta beach, other priests took two calves out to sea in small boats, weighted them down and pushed them overboard.

In all, 79 animals were sacrificed for the ceremony, including roosters, ducks, dogs, pigs, goats, cows and water buffalo.

Organizers of the event said such sacrifices are a long-held tradition and were a necessary step in restoring balance to the universe after the bombing. The animals will be reincarnated as humans, they said.

. . .

. . . [M]any Balinese blame themselves for the bombing. Some say they became too lax in praying and holding ceremonies in the Kuta area, one of the more commercial parts of the island.

"We feel responsible for what happened," Dewi Darmawati, 26, said after taking part in the ceremony. "We don't know what we did wrong. Maybe we forgot God, or forgot to pray to God, but we feel responsible for what happened."

. . .

I don't think you have to be a PETA supporter to be grossed out by this. The pig probably didn't distinguish between being a sacrifice and being sausage, but drowning two calves seems gratuitous. And aren't cows sacred in Hinduism?

The idea that the Balinese brought this tragedy on themselves by being lax in their prayers and animal sacrifices is very close to Jerry Falwell's claim that God lifted his veil of protection from America because of our secular humanism.

11-18-2002, 03:12 PM

Sorry, such practice as slashing a goat's throat and drinking it's blood or pushing animals of a boat is not in Hindusm. I believe it is Pagan rituals of the locals in Bali to please the spirits of those who died untimely. I know this because I live in a country where Hindus are one of the majority of its people.

ageofreason2000 · 11-18-2002, 03:25 PM

Also aren't devout hindu's vegetarians.

They are the set of god botherers that the animals would most like to see in power (OK them and buddists).

Age

karthik · 11-19-2002, 06:17 AM

Actually animal sacrifice has been prevalent in Hinduism from time immemorial. Hordes of animals used to be sacrificed by kings and Brahmins to appease the gods during war and peace. It is only the brahmins and a few other castes who are vegetarians and that too only beacuse of the influence of early buddhism and jainism. So hinduism in itself is fairly violent to animals!!

The prohibition against eating beef also seems to be a recent influence. Hindus during vedic times relished on beef and buffalo meat.

hinduwoman · 11-19-2002, 05:37 PM

Yes, even today in Eastern India sacrifices are made to Kali.
But I did not knew about drinking blood. Ugh! Gross!

Nowadays (I would say for the last 1000 years) Hindus had been vegetarians and no animal sacrifices, except to Kali.

11-19-2002, 05:48 PM

"Actually animal sacrifice has been prevalent in Hinduism from time immemorial. Hordes of animals used to be sacrificed by kings and Brahmins to appease the gods during war and peace. "

My reply : Yes and No.
Yes - There are such sacrifices involving animals, usually Cows and Horses and they usually involve Kings.

No - They (Kings) do not kill this animals, instead they donate them to others. Animals such as Horses are usually given to Warriors which animals such as Cows (because of the milk) is given to Brahmin.

Other "lowly" people are usually given such things as money or clothings.

As for Kali, that is considered a cult even in those days since sacrificing a life for God is not something practical.

hinduwoman · 11-19-2002, 06:00 PM

Seraphim, in ancient India animals were distributed, but they were also sacrificed.
Much of earlier lawbooks discuss when it is justified for a priest to take a life and the answer was a lawful sacrifice. The Horse sacrifice was the prerogative of kings only. However sacrifices were exprensive and harmful to an agricultural economy.
Also when the non-violence theory became popular, they declined.

Kali worship is not a cult. It is the thugees that is a cult. In Nepal at Pasupatinath temple sacrifices ares till given. When the King came to Calcutta he sacrificed a number of goats to Kali at Kalighat temple.

DigitalDruid · 11-20-2002, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hinduwoman:
<strong>Yes, even today in Eastern India sacrifices are made to Kali.
But I did not knew about drinking blood. Ugh! Gross!

Nowadays (I would say for the last 1000 years) Hindus had been vegetarians and no animal sacrifices, except to Kali.</strong>

Yeah mostly to Kali, but I read recently about King of Nepal offering a sacrificial animal (buffalo?) to Goddess Kamakhya at Kamakhya temple in the eastern state of Assam.

monkey mind · 11-22-2002, 07:56 AM

When I was in Nepal I saw a sacrifice of a spring lamb. It didn't seem to much different than a slaughter, except for a little bit of ceremony.

lpetrich · 11-23-2002, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by monkey mind:
<strong>When I was in Nepal I saw a sacrifice of a spring lamb. It didn't seem to much different than a slaughter, except for a little bit of ceremony.</strong>

Did they eat the lamb's meat afterward?

I wonder how much animal sacrifice is really a ritual form of slaughter. One can see that from a variety of sources, like the Bible, the Vedas, and classical Greece.

And it might be interesting to find out what theological pretext they had for keeping the tastiest parts for themselves. I ask this because in Greek mythology, there is a "justification" for doing exactly that in the form of a story in which Prometheus tricked Zeus into accepting a sacrifice of fat and bones.

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11-18-2002, 03:12 PM	#2
Seraphim Guest Posts: n/a	Sorry, such practice as slashing a goat's throat and drinking it's blood or pushing animals of a boat is not in Hindusm. I believe it is Pagan rituals of the locals in Bali to please the spirits of those who died untimely. I know this because I live in a country where Hindus are one of the majority of its people.

11-18-2002, 03:25 PM	#3
ageofreason2000 Regular Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: UK (London) Posts: 103	Also aren't devout hindu's vegetarians. They are the set of god botherers that the animals would most like to see in power (OK them and buddists). Age

11-19-2002, 06:17 AM	#4
karthik Regular Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 277	Actually animal sacrifice has been prevalent in Hinduism from time immemorial. Hordes of animals used to be sacrificed by kings and Brahmins to appease the gods during war and peace. It is only the brahmins and a few other castes who are vegetarians and that too only beacuse of the influence of early buddhism and jainism. So hinduism in itself is fairly violent to animals!! The prohibition against eating beef also seems to be a recent influence. Hindus during vedic times relished on beef and buffalo meat.

11-19-2002, 05:37 PM	#5
hinduwoman Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: India Posts: 6,977	Yes, even today in Eastern India sacrifices are made to Kali. But I did not knew about drinking blood. Ugh! Gross! Nowadays (I would say for the last 1000 years) Hindus had been vegetarians and no animal sacrifices, except to Kali.

11-19-2002, 05:48 PM	#6
Seraphim Guest Posts: n/a	"Actually animal sacrifice has been prevalent in Hinduism from time immemorial. Hordes of animals used to be sacrificed by kings and Brahmins to appease the gods during war and peace. " My reply : Yes and No. Yes - There are such sacrifices involving animals, usually Cows and Horses and they usually involve Kings. No - They (Kings) do not kill this animals, instead they donate them to others. Animals such as Horses are usually given to Warriors which animals such as Cows (because of the milk) is given to Brahmin. Other "lowly" people are usually given such things as money or clothings. As for Kali, that is considered a cult even in those days since sacrificing a life for God is not something practical.

11-19-2002, 06:00 PM	#7
hinduwoman Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: India Posts: 6,977	Seraphim, in ancient India animals were distributed, but they were also sacrificed. Much of earlier lawbooks discuss when it is justified for a priest to take a life and the answer was a lawful sacrifice. The Horse sacrifice was the prerogative of kings only. However sacrifices were exprensive and harmful to an agricultural economy. Also when the non-violence theory became popular, they declined. Kali worship is not a cult. It is the thugees that is a cult. In Nepal at Pasupatinath temple sacrifices ares till given. When the King came to Calcutta he sacrificed a number of goats to Kali at Kalighat temple.

11-22-2002, 07:56 AM	#9
monkey mind Regular Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: canada Posts: 140	When I was in Nepal I saw a sacrifice of a spring lamb. It didn't seem to much different than a slaughter, except for a little bit of ceremony.

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