Freethought & Rationalism Archive

bonduca · 08-22-2002, 07:00 PM

But I have not insulted you, I have only just arrived on this thread. Why will you not present your evidence? <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

ex-preacher · 08-22-2002, 07:11 PM

Look, lcb, there are pro-choice Christians and pro-life atheists (like me). True, most fundies in their undies believe "every sperm is sacred" and most humanists are pro-abortion rights, but you cannot say pro-life = Christianity or pro-choice = evil secular humanism.

And if you guys are going to talk about abortion - start a new thread. I liked the way this one was going.

The point of the atrocities of the OT has nothing to do with the standards of Christians; it has to do with the depravity of their God. Isn't the OT God supposed to be the same as the NT God? Or did he get a celestial make-over?

In the case of the massacre of the Amalekites, the reason God gave was that 400 years earlier their ancestors had not allowed the Israelites to pass through their territory. If this god were real, he would have to be the world's #1 jerk! The good news is that none of this really happened! (As I recall, the Amalekites were "utterly destroyed" on three separate occasions.)

Bible Humper · 08-22-2002, 07:41 PM

I remember hearing about partial birth abortions going on in China, it was talked about because Pat Robertson was accused of hypocricy due to the fact that despite all of his rhetoric against abortion, he declared that it was "understandable" for China to do this.

The charge of hypocrisy comes from the fact that it was so out of character for him, and not insignificantly because he was in the process of negotiations regarding some lucrative business ventures with China.

IIRC, the process involves injecting a needle full of some sort of acid into the "soft spot" of the baby's skull as it's head leaves the womb of the mother during birth.

The Other Michael · 08-22-2002, 07:51 PM

Please remember that the topic is "why I cannot embrace Christianity", and not abortion: morality and methods.

I think there are likely to be some earlier abortion threads in this forum for those interested in that subject - please feel free to hunt them out and add to them, or start a new thread if needed.

Michael
MF&P Moderator, Second Class

bonduca · 08-23-2002, 03:41 AM

Fair enough.

brighid · 08-23-2002, 04:33 AM

Lcb,

If you had read the Journal of the American Medical Associations detailed paper I posted on this OR the other link I posted you would see from whence I provided that information (and their statistics). Please do not act in a hypocritical manner by acting as if you are insulted after having made comments about Nazis in relation to women who have legal abortions. Furthermore, as the Other Michael stated this thread is about why some cannot embrace Christianity, perhaps it was not prudent to comment on your remarks and for that I apologize, but not for the content of the post. If you would like to have a discussion about this, including providing the link to your sources (as I did and you have not) please feel free to open a different thread. I will not, at this time comment further about your statements. So, if you would like to continue to discuss the topic in regard to Christianity please do so. Otherwise please do not attempt to take this thread off track with further comments unrelated to the topic, or they will be removed or edited for content.

Brighid

Ronniefree · 08-25-2002, 09:09 AM

So let's get back to the original topic "why I cannot embrace Christianity."
I was a Pentecostal, Born Again, Evangelistic, , love Jesus with all my heart and Christian minister who has in the last 2 years, slowly come to my senses. I have been recording my journey from blind religious fervor to common sense logic.
I consider myself fairly intelligent and find it truly amazing that I was caught up in Religious non-sense for so long. (Over 25 years)
It is realtivly rare for people who have been as committed to Christian dogma as I was, to then come to their senses and leave their faith. Or maybe it happens more than I realize. In any case I think my experiences as a Christian have made me very knowledgeable about the psychology and flawed reasoning of these deceived people.
I plan to publish my journey some time in the future but until them I plan to post some of my experiences on this web site. One thing is for sure. I am a Christian’s worst night mare because I am familiar with their views and can effectively point out the major flaws in their belief system and have spent time poking numerous holes in their theology.
I love reading the posts on this web site because they give me additional ammunition. More later ...

Ronniefree

08-25-2002, 09:48 AM

Welcome, Ronniefree! Please feel free to post more about yourself <a href="http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum&f=43" target="_blank">here.</a>

dk · 08-25-2002, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ronniefree:
<strong>So let's get back to the original topic "why I cannot embrace Christianity."
I was a Pentecostal, Born Again, Evangelistic, , love Jesus with all my heart and Christian minister who has in the last 2 years, slowly come to my senses. I have been recording my journey from blind religious fervor to common sense logic.
I consider myself fairly intelligent and find it truly amazing that I was caught up in Religious non-sense for so long. (Over 25 years)
It is realtivly rare for people who have been as committed to Christian dogma as I was, to then come to their senses and leave their faith. Or maybe it happens more than I realize. In any case I think my experiences as a Christian have made me very knowledgeable about the psychology and flawed reasoning of these deceived people.
I plan to publish my journey some time in the future but until them I plan to post some of my experiences on this web site. One thing is for sure. I am a Christian’s worst night mare because I am familiar with their views and can effectively point out the major flaws in their belief system and have spent time poking numerous holes in their theology.
I love reading the posts on this web site because they give me additional ammunition. More later ...

Ronniefree</strong>

Well this post shows blanket hostility towards Christians. Language like "ammunition", "poking holes" is clearly escalatory rhetoric. I have no idea what you believe Christian's believe, so I'm curious how you justify such hostile escalatory bias against all Christians?

If I didn't know better I'd say you sound like a bigot.

lcb · 08-25-2002, 12:10 PM

you say you are Christians' "worst nightmare?", islamic terrorists just murdered over 3,000 of your fellow Americans, are you trying to be Islam's worst nightmare too? When you were a preacher how many people did you lead to Christ? and now you are a proseltyzing atheist, how many people have you caused to abandon their faith? are you ahead, behind or about even? you were sincere then but now say you were sincerely wrong, you say you are sincere now and are sincerely right-are your subjective beliefs reliable? and why should we listen to you? The thread topic is "why I cant embrace Christianity",would you like to hear why I can't embrace atheism?

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08-22-2002, 07:00 PM	#31
bonduca Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: . Posts: 1,653	But I have not insulted you, I have only just arrived on this thread. Why will you not present your evidence? <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

08-22-2002, 07:11 PM	#32
ex-preacher Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: University of Arkansas Posts: 1,033	Look, lcb, there are pro-choice Christians and pro-life atheists (like me). True, most fundies in their undies believe "every sperm is sacred" and most humanists are pro-abortion rights, but you cannot say pro-life = Christianity or pro-choice = evil secular humanism. And if you guys are going to talk about abortion - start a new thread. I liked the way this one was going. The point of the atrocities of the OT has nothing to do with the standards of Christians; it has to do with the depravity of their God. Isn't the OT God supposed to be the same as the NT God? Or did he get a celestial make-over? In the case of the massacre of the Amalekites, the reason God gave was that 400 years earlier their ancestors had not allowed the Israelites to pass through their territory. If this god were real, he would have to be the world's #1 jerk! The good news is that none of this really happened! (As I recall, the Amalekites were "utterly destroyed" on three separate occasions.)

08-22-2002, 07:41 PM	#33
Bible Humper Veteran Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,125	I remember hearing about partial birth abortions going on in China, it was talked about because Pat Robertson was accused of hypocricy due to the fact that despite all of his rhetoric against abortion, he declared that it was "understandable" for China to do this. The charge of hypocrisy comes from the fact that it was so out of character for him, and not insignificantly because he was in the process of negotiations regarding some lucrative business ventures with China. IIRC, the process involves injecting a needle full of some sort of acid into the "soft spot" of the baby's skull as it's head leaves the womb of the mother during birth.

08-22-2002, 07:51 PM	#34
The Other Michael Honorary Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: In the fog of San Francisco Posts: 12,631	Please remember that the topic is "why I cannot embrace Christianity", and not abortion: morality and methods. I think there are likely to be some earlier abortion threads in this forum for those interested in that subject - please feel free to hunt them out and add to them, or start a new thread if needed. Michael MF&P Moderator, Second Class

08-23-2002, 03:41 AM	#35
bonduca Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: . Posts: 1,653	Fair enough.

08-23-2002, 04:33 AM	#36
brighid Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: somewhere in the known Universe Posts: 6,993	Lcb, If you had read the Journal of the American Medical Associations detailed paper I posted on this OR the other link I posted you would see from whence I provided that information (and their statistics). Please do not act in a hypocritical manner by acting as if you are insulted after having made comments about Nazis in relation to women who have legal abortions. Furthermore, as the Other Michael stated this thread is about why some cannot embrace Christianity, perhaps it was not prudent to comment on your remarks and for that I apologize, but not for the content of the post. If you would like to have a discussion about this, including providing the link to your sources (as I did and you have not) please feel free to open a different thread. I will not, at this time comment further about your statements. So, if you would like to continue to discuss the topic in regard to Christianity please do so. Otherwise please do not attempt to take this thread off track with further comments unrelated to the topic, or they will be removed or edited for content. Brighid

08-25-2002, 09:09 AM	#37
Ronniefree New Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Miami Posts: 1	So let's get back to the original topic "why I cannot embrace Christianity." I was a Pentecostal, Born Again, Evangelistic, , love Jesus with all my heart and Christian minister who has in the last 2 years, slowly come to my senses. I have been recording my journey from blind religious fervor to common sense logic. I consider myself fairly intelligent and find it truly amazing that I was caught up in Religious non-sense for so long. (Over 25 years) It is realtivly rare for people who have been as committed to Christian dogma as I was, to then come to their senses and leave their faith. Or maybe it happens more than I realize. In any case I think my experiences as a Christian have made me very knowledgeable about the psychology and flawed reasoning of these deceived people. I plan to publish my journey some time in the future but until them I plan to post some of my experiences on this web site. One thing is for sure. I am a Christian’s worst night mare because I am familiar with their views and can effectively point out the major flaws in their belief system and have spent time poking numerous holes in their theology. I love reading the posts on this web site because they give me additional ammunition. More later ... Ronniefree

08-25-2002, 09:48 AM	#38
DMB Guest Posts: n/a	Welcome, Ronniefree! Please feel free to post more about yourself <a href="http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum&f=43" target="_blank">here.</a>

08-25-2002, 12:10 PM	#40
lcb Banned Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: washington d.c. Posts: 224	you say you are Christians' "worst nightmare?", islamic terrorists just murdered over 3,000 of your fellow Americans, are you trying to be Islam's worst nightmare too? When you were a preacher how many people did you lead to Christ? and now you are a proseltyzing atheist, how many people have you caused to abandon their faith? are you ahead, behind or about even? you were sincere then but now say you were sincerely wrong, you say you are sincere now and are sincerely right-are your subjective beliefs reliable? and why should we listen to you? The thread topic is "why I cant embrace Christianity",would you like to hear why I can't embrace atheism?

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