Freethought & Rationalism Archive

bob · 03-12-2002, 03:13 PM

The big question--"what happens when you die?"

I post this topic to inquire what the great minds of this forum think about this question.

I often think to myself--"what will become of me when I die?"
- An afterlife?
- Reincarnation?
- NON-EXISTANCE?

Obviously the first 2 are theistic and made by man, thus I can weed them out... but not-existing?

Do you have any idea how scary it is to NOT EXIST? Ok think about when you sleep: you have no conscious thought, no senses; all you have is your sub-conscious (if you're a believer in that). Now consider death: it is like sleeping but without the dreams, without any subconscious, and without ever waking up.

According to science, and any logical thinker, when a person dies their brain and body cease to function--they no longer exist.

Now consider your life. You can see, talk, breath, think, etc. What will happen to this 'mind' that you have when you die? It will NOT EXIST.

If you think about this enough, you will get f*cking scared. After you die will be EXACTLY like before you were born-->

you
do
not
EXIST.

tronvillain · 03-12-2002, 07:08 PM

Non-existence is by definition not something that can be imagined - if you can imagine it, it's not non-existence. As a result, being dead is not something one can actually be afraid of.

Zar · 03-12-2002, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tronvillain:
<strong>Non-existence is by definition not something that can be imagined - if you can imagine it, it's not non-existence. As a result, being dead is not something one can actually be afraid of.</strong>

Sounds like a bit o' Logical Positivism if I'm not mistaken. Anyway, this doesn't seem like it would allay the very real fear of dying people have to show them you can analyze the term "non-existence" into meaninglessness.

It seems there is more to the story than fearing strictly nothingness. Of course, instinct plays a role, but there is probably a fear of losing what you value, which is the life you have. Dying and not existing beyond that means you will lose everything and there will be no future for you. If you have nothing, and life is just pain and suffering, perhaps all you have is the instinct of survivial and for some, even this is not enough to keep them alive.

I don't personally fear nothingness, but I fear not living well enough or not being able to feel like I made reasonably good use of my time. I can't imagine the horror of reaching that moment and feeling very intense doubts. How wretched that would be.

[ March 12, 2002: Message edited by: Zar ]</p>

Mu · 03-12-2002, 10:45 PM

i think non-existence would be plesant

think about it, no more homework or papers to write.

no more barking dogs and smelly garabage.

i suppose no more tasty ice cream too but i feel the absence of hapiness and pain would be pleasent (wow did i contradict myself no i think i need to define my terms better but i'm too sleepy to do that now)

svensky · 03-13-2002, 03:07 AM

Quote:

Obviously the first 2 are theistic and made by man, thus I can weed them out... but not-existing?

I dont see this tracks. Oh ... wait, thats right, philisophical assumptions.

Jason

Francois Tremblay · 03-13-2002, 04:23 AM

That's nonsensical. That one cannot imagine or feel non-existence doesn't mean one doesn't fear it. I can't feel what it would be like to be a snail either, but I don't want to be one.

Jamie_L · 03-13-2002, 04:38 AM

I'm right there with ya, Bob.

Sometimes just sleeping bugs the s*&t out of me.

Death? Gives me panic fits.

Jamie

babelfish · 03-13-2002, 05:21 AM

The reason I am not afraid of dying:

I don't look back in fear and horror on the time before I existed.

Why should I look forward in fear and horror to the time when I will no longer exist?

excreationist · 03-13-2002, 05:57 AM

I think a lot of the reason people like to believe in the afterlife is because they don't feel content with their life - they want hope - for kids there is the possibility of them being rich or having a job they like. For older people there is the possibility of marriage to someone they love or retiring young and having lots of free-time. But sooner or later people might believe that they'll never get real satisfaction. Guaranteed eternal bliss is a good thing to look forward to.

And it means that their loved ones aren't gone forever - they are just separated for a short time (unless they went to the fires of hell). Or in the case of the reincarnation, their loved one is living on - it just isn't clear where they are.

Well anyway, I'm pretty content with my lack of belief in an afterlife. In fact I sometimes say to myself "I'm still alive!" - it's weird - I'm conscious of myself and I'm here! I think even if I was in severe pain it would still be interesting that I existed... and the good thing about a limited life span is that it is harder to run out of new things to see and do than if you are immortal, and if you are tortured, it will eventually end. It also makes your current experiences more precious since they are limited.

John Page · 03-13-2002, 07:25 AM

How about this:

If a living thing did not have fear, did not care whether it lived or died, then it would not survive for long in a competitive environment. Darwin would have it for lunch, so to speak.

The purpose of life is not to be not. Perpetuation.

Fear helps. Fear is relative, too much and you hide in the cave. Too little fear and you spend all your time surfin' Fear of death makes you do stuff before death happens.

03-12-2002, 03:13 PM	#1
bob Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Rockford, Michigan Posts: 9	death - yeah, no me gusta The big question--"what happens when you die?" I post this topic to inquire what the great minds of this forum think about this question. I often think to myself--"what will become of me when I die?" - An afterlife? - Reincarnation? - NON-EXISTANCE? Obviously the first 2 are theistic and made by man, thus I can weed them out... but not-existing? Do you have any idea how scary it is to NOT EXIST? Ok think about when you sleep: you have no conscious thought, no senses; all you have is your sub-conscious (if you're a believer in that). Now consider death: it is like sleeping but without the dreams, without any subconscious, and without ever waking up. According to science, and any logical thinker, when a person dies their brain and body cease to function--they no longer exist. Now consider your life. You can see, talk, breath, think, etc. What will happen to this 'mind' that you have when you die? It will NOT EXIST. If you think about this enough, you will get f*cking scared. After you die will be EXACTLY like before you were born--> you do not EXIST.

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03-12-2002, 07:08 PM	#2
tronvillain Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 5,658	Non-existence is by definition not something that can be imagined - if you can imagine it, it's not non-existence. As a result, being dead is not something one can actually be afraid of.

03-12-2002, 10:45 PM	#4
Mu Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mu Posts: 8	i think non-existence would be plesant think about it, no more homework or papers to write. no more barking dogs and smelly garabage. i suppose no more tasty ice cream too but i feel the absence of hapiness and pain would be pleasent (wow did i contradict myself no i think i need to define my terms better but i'm too sleepy to do that now)

03-13-2002, 04:23 AM	#6
Francois Tremblay Banned Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Montreal, QC Canada Posts: 876	That's nonsensical. That one cannot imagine or feel non-existence doesn't mean one doesn't fear it. I can't feel what it would be like to be a snail either, but I don't want to be one.

03-13-2002, 04:38 AM	#7
Jamie_L Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: U.S. Posts: 2,565	I'm right there with ya, Bob. Sometimes just sleeping bugs the s*&t out of me. Death? Gives me panic fits. Jamie

03-13-2002, 05:21 AM	#8
babelfish Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Augusta, Maine, USA Posts: 2,046	The reason I am not afraid of dying: I don't look back in fear and horror on the time before I existed. Why should I look forward in fear and horror to the time when I will no longer exist?

03-13-2002, 05:57 AM	#9
excreationist Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Australia Posts: 4,886	I think a lot of the reason people like to believe in the afterlife is because they don't feel content with their life - they want hope - for kids there is the possibility of them being rich or having a job they like. For older people there is the possibility of marriage to someone they love or retiring young and having lots of free-time. But sooner or later people might believe that they'll never get real satisfaction. Guaranteed eternal bliss is a good thing to look forward to. And it means that their loved ones aren't gone forever - they are just separated for a short time (unless they went to the fires of hell). Or in the case of the reincarnation, their loved one is living on - it just isn't clear where they are. Well anyway, I'm pretty content with my lack of belief in an afterlife. In fact I sometimes say to myself "I'm still alive!" - it's weird - I'm conscious of myself and I'm here! I think even if I was in severe pain it would still be interesting that I existed... and the good thing about a limited life span is that it is harder to run out of new things to see and do than if you are immortal, and if you are tortured, it will eventually end. It also makes your current experiences more precious since they are limited.

03-13-2002, 07:25 AM	#10
John Page Veteran Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: US Posts: 5,495	How about this: If a living thing did not have fear, did not care whether it lived or died, then it would not survive for long in a competitive environment. Darwin would have it for lunch, so to speak. The purpose of life is not to be not. Perpetuation. Fear helps. Fear is relative, too much and you hide in the cave. Too little fear and you spend all your time surfin' Fear of death makes you do stuff before death happens.

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