Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Oxymoron · 01-12-2003, 10:17 AM

Is it not disturbing to theists that poisons exist such as ricin that have no antidote (known as yet, granted)?

Why would a loving, omnipotent and omniscient God that wished well for his flock allow such an easily produced and deadly substance to exist? (As opposed to nuclear weapons, which are hard to make and entirely man-made).

seebs · 01-12-2003, 10:59 AM

Well, within the theology, there's a lot more to the universe than this life, so... I guess I don't see why it's a big deal. This life ends. Sometimes sooner, sometimes later. How is this a theological problem?

I think any question of "but people can DIE" loses much of its emotional weight when you realize that, within the theology under discussion, that's not the end.

jayh · 01-12-2003, 12:58 PM

>>Is it not disturbing to theists that poisons exist such as ricin that have no antidote <<

That does not really reflect one way or another -- there is no known antidote for a shark bite either.

In a universe with death, irreversible causes are not a show stopper.

Oxymoron · 01-12-2003, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by seebs
I think any question of "but people can DIE" loses much of its emotional weight when you realize that, within the theology under discussion, that's not the end.

This is what I find very very frightening: that somehow, the only existence that there is real evidence for is cheapened because of a mythological next one. I guess this sort of inverts Pascal's wager: if this is the only existence, then if we screw up, we have lost everything.

The cheapening of our existence seems morally bankrupt, to me: death and suffering are OK because there's an afterlife. No doubt, there will be 20 Virgins (or whatever) ready to attend to you there, if you take enough of the infidel with you...

happyboy · 01-13-2003, 12:35 PM

no no, oxymoron: you go to the next incarnation on the great wheel life of life, until you get enlightened enough to reach nirvana......

no, wait a minute, you to hades and dwell in a grey, misty netherworld, bored out of your mind, for all eternity.....

er, hold on, you go to your next incarnation, until you can get enlightened enough to join with brahma.....

no, that's not quite right: you journey to to valhala (assuming you died a warrior's death) where you drink with odin for all eternity, until the time of ragnorak, whereupon you will cease to be...

er.....ah, screw it. there are so many afterlife beliefs that a believer of any stripe is most likely screwed no matter where they end up after death.....

happyboy

SmartBlonde57 · 01-13-2003, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Oxymoron
Why would a loving, omnipotent and omniscient God that wished well for his flock allow such an easily produced and deadly substance to exist?

Same reason why he created tuberculosis, malaria, and tornadoes, I would imagine. Oh, he also gave us each an appendix, remember.

seebs · 01-13-2003, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Oxymoron
This is what I find very very frightening: that somehow, the only existence that there is real evidence for is cheapened because of a mythological next one. I guess this sort of inverts Pascal's wager: if this is the only existence, then if we screw up, we have lost everything.

The cheapening of our existence seems morally bankrupt, to me: death and suffering are OK because there's an afterlife. No doubt, there will be 20 Virgins (or whatever) ready to attend to you there, if you take enough of the infidel with you...

I'm just pointing out that, within the theology, it's a sort of silly question.

I see either assertion on the afterlife question as silly. I don't care; right things stay right no matter what the afterlife is like, or whether there is one. I currently believe in an afterlife, but it's not a big component of my evaluation of the world.

01-12-2003, 10:17 AM	#1
Oxymoron Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: http://10.0.0.2/ Posts: 6,623	Ricin and so on Is it not disturbing to theists that poisons exist such as ricin that have no antidote (known as yet, granted)? Why would a loving, omnipotent and omniscient God that wished well for his flock allow such an easily produced and deadly substance to exist? (As opposed to nuclear weapons, which are hard to make and entirely man-made).

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01-12-2003, 10:59 AM	#2
seebs Contributor Join Date: May 2002 Location: Saint Paul, MN Posts: 24,524	Well, within the theology, there's a lot more to the universe than this life, so... I guess I don't see why it's a big deal. This life ends. Sometimes sooner, sometimes later. How is this a theological problem? I think any question of "but people can DIE" loses much of its emotional weight when you realize that, within the theology under discussion, that's not the end.

01-12-2003, 12:58 PM	#3
jayh Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 4,606	>>Is it not disturbing to theists that poisons exist such as ricin that have no antidote << That does not really reflect one way or another -- there is no known antidote for a shark bite either. In a universe with death, irreversible causes are not a show stopper.

01-13-2003, 12:35 PM	#5
happyboy Regular Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: on the border between here and there, WV Posts: 373	no no, oxymoron: you go to the next incarnation on the great wheel life of life, until you get enlightened enough to reach nirvana...... no, wait a minute, you to hades and dwell in a grey, misty netherworld, bored out of your mind, for all eternity..... er, hold on, you go to your next incarnation, until you can get enlightened enough to join with brahma..... no, that's not quite right: you journey to to valhala (assuming you died a warrior's death) where you drink with odin for all eternity, until the time of ragnorak, whereupon you will cease to be... er.....ah, screw it. there are so many afterlife beliefs that a believer of any stripe is most likely screwed no matter where they end up after death..... happyboy

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