mark9950

Ezekiel predicted Babylon would conquer Egypt and was wrong.

Ezekiel predicts that Nebuchadrezzar of Babylon will conquer Egypt utterly destroying it, slaying and scattering it's people, and that it will stay uninhabited for 40 years.

In 568 BCE Nebuchadrezzar tried to conquer Egypt and Egypt survived with no apparent damage.

Aahmes ruled for another generation over a prosperous Egypt and lived to see Nebuchadrezzar die. No Egyptians were scattered or dispersed.

(Ezek 29:10 NRSV) therefore, I am against you, and against your channels, and I will make the land of Egypt an utter waste and desolation, from Migdol to Syene, as far as the border of Ethiopia.

(Ezek 29:11 NRSV) No human foot shall pass through it, and no animal foot shall pass through it; it shall be uninhabited forty years.

(Ezek 29:12 NRSV) I will make the land of Egypt a desolation among desolated countries; and her cities shall be a desolation forty years among cities that are laid waste. I will scatter the Egyptians among the nations, and disperse them among the countries.

(Ezek 30:10 NRSV) Thus says the Lord GOD: I will put an end to the hordes of Egypt, by the hand of King Nebuchadrezzar of Babylon.

(Ezek 30:11 NRSV) He and his people with him, the most terrible of the nations, shall be brought in to destroy the land; and they shall draw their swords against Egypt, and fill the land with the slain.

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Ezekiel predicts the destruction of Tyre (Tyrus) by Nebuchadrezzar and is wrong again.

Ezekiel incorrectly predicts that the island of Tyre (Tyrus) will be utterly destroyed and "made a bare rock" which will "never be rebuilt".

At the time of the prediction, it seemed like to be a sure thing, but 13 years of seige later Nebuchadrezzar gives up. The Island of Tyre is not destroyed or even conquered. It is not made "a bare rock" that will "never be rebuilt".

Ezekiel admits his error in Ezek 29:17

(Here the conquest of Trye looks like a sure thing so Ezekiel makes his prediction)

(Ezek 26:1 NRSV) In the eleventh year, on the first day of the month, the word of the LORD came to me:

(Ezek 26:7 NRSV) For thus says the Lord GOD: I will bring against Tyre from the north King Nebuchadrezzar of Babylon, king of kings, together with horses, chariots, cavalry, and a great and powerful army.

(Ezek 26:14 NRSV) I will make you a bare rock; you shall be a place for spreading nets. You shall never again be rebuilt, for I the LORD have spoken, says the Lord GOD.

(Ezek 27:32 NRSV) In their wailing they raise a lamentation for you, and lament over you: "Who was ever destroyed like Tyre in the midst of the sea?

(13 years of futile effort by Nebuchadrezzar later...)

(Ezek 29:17 NRSV) In the twenty-seventh year, in the first month, on the first day of the month, the word of the LORD came to me:

(Here Ezekiel admits he was wrong)

(Ezek 29:18 NRSV) Mortal, King Nebuchadrezzar of Babylon made his army labor hard against Tyre; every head was made bald and every shoulder was rubbed bare; yet neither he nor his army got anything from Tyre to pay for the labor that he had expended against it.

(So he then predicts that God decides to give Egypt to him instead, another Ezekiel prophecy that completely failed)

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Micah predicts the destruction of Jerusalem (which at the time was about to be invaded by Sennacherib and seemed inevitable) blaming the destruction on the corruption of the priesthood of Judah.

Jerusalem was sieged, but the destruction didn't happen.

A century later Jeremiah quotes Micah and tries to excuse the failed prophecy by saying that "the Lord changed his mind" about that destruction.

(Micah 3:12 NRSV) Therefore because of you Zion shall be plowed as a field; Jerusalem shall become a heap of ruins, and the mountain of the house a wooded height.

(~100 years and no destruction later...)

(Jer 26:18 NRSV) "Micah of Moresheth, who prophesied during the days of King Hezekiah of Judah, said to all the people of Judah: 'Thus says the LORD of hosts, Zion shall be plowed as a field; Jerusalem shall become a heap of ruins, and the mountain of the house a wooded height.'

(Jer 26:19 NRSV) Did King Hezekiah of Judah and all Judah actually put him to death? Did he not fear the LORD and entreat the favor of the LORD, and did not the LORD change his mind about the disaster that he had pronounced against them? ...

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The prophet Daniel incorrectly states that in the third year of the reign of King Jehoiakim Nebuchadnezzar is king and that he conquers Judah.

The third year of Jehoiakim's reign was 606 BCE, at which time Nebuchadnezzar was not yet king of Babylon. It was in 597 BCE that Nebuchadnezzar takes Jerusalem, by then Jehoiakim had died.

(Dan 1:1 NRSV) In the third year of the reign of King Jehoiakim of Judah, King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon came to Jerusalem and besieged it.

(Dan 1:2 NRSV) The Lord let King Jehoiakim of Judah fall into his power, as well as some of the vessels of the house of God. These he brought to the land of Shinar, and placed the vessels in the treasury of his gods.

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Jeremiah incorrectly predicts 70 years for the Babylonian exiles but they only lasted 59 years.

The 1rst exile started in 597 BCE when Nebuchadnezzar first takes Jerusalem and appoints Zedekiah king (Judah's last king). Nebuchadnezzar has temple equipment taken away.

The start of the 2nd exile was in 586 BCE when Nebuchadnezzar takes Jerusalem a second time putting down a rebellion and destroys the temple.

The end comes in 538 BCE when Cyrus takes Babylon and ends the Babylonian kingdom. Jews are then allowed to return to Judah.

(Jer 29:10 NRSV) For thus says the LORD: Only when Babylon's seventy years are completed will I visit you, and I will fulfill to you my promise and bring you back to this place

Roland

I'm sure they are failed prophecies, but all a believer has to do is claim that all that will happen in the future sometime. After all, I guess no prophecy is really "unfulfilled" until the earth and the universe have come to an end. And, come to think of it, that prophecy - as long as one doesn't attach a date to is - seems pretty much a surety to be fulfilled someday.

Roland

Of course, my post above refers only to those you mentioned that don't come with specified time periods for fulfillment.

Dargo

There are Christians who actually lists EZ 29:15 as a fulfilled prophecy based on the claim that Egypt never again ruled over another nation. This really isn't true either since Egypt was the seat of a small empire which ruled Syria and Lebanon around the 10th century. http://www.aboutbibleprophecy.com/ezekiel_29_15.htm http://www.gospeltruth.info/egypt.htm give examples of fundie rationalization.

http://www.studylight.org/com/bcc/vi...ze&chapter=029 is the work of a Christian who believe Egypt was conquered by King Nebie despite what historians say.

A desolation for forty years…
(Ezekiel 29:11,12). This is the big problem in this prophecy, because nearly all of the scholars seem very sure that there was never such a long period of desolation in the whole history of Egypt. However, there is too much that men do not know about the history of those times to allow very much dependence to be put in such opinions. Nebuchadnezzar did indeed capture Egypt, following the fall of Tyre; and if what that ruthless ruler did to Jerusalem is any gauge of what he probably did to Egypt, we may be very sure that Ezekiel's prophecy was no exaggeration. Our inability to prove just exactly what all that desolation was cannot in any manner detract from the most circumstantial and accurate fulfillment of that later promise in this same prophecy regarding the perpetual place of Egypt throughout following history, in which the perpetual mediocrity of the nation was foretold. Our argument is that this portion of the prophecy alone proves the divine inspiration of the whole prophecy, and the believer should have no problem with trusting God for the fulfillment of the rest of it, whether or not, modern commentators know all about it.

http://www.densitychurch.org/tyre.html gives a Christian excuse for failed prophecy about Tyre being conquered.

Dear Professor Eichelbaumm

If you do not accept that the Bible is the very Word of God, you are believing a lie. And as all lies are from the Father of Lies (Satan), you must be under the deception of Satan!

Despite your apparently convincing arguments, I choose to believe that the Word of God was true when Ezekiel prophesied the fall of Tyre - even though it never happened!



Here is my answer from the Bible:

1. You say that Tyre was never destroyed, as prophesied. But here you are only relying on "history", and the existence of the city of Tyre in the Middle East today. Who are we to believe "history" and "geography" instead of the Word of God?? Aha! I prefer to believe the Word of God, which has been demonstrated to be perfect.

2. God can do anything. And therefore, he can even break his own prophecy! It wasn't that the Tyre prophecy failed to come true. Oh no - what a very Worldly way of thinking! It was that God decided to change his own prophecy. And he can do that, because he is God!

As you see, there is an answer to any problem you have with the Bible - as long as you are first willing to have faith that the Bible is the perfect and infallible word of God.

If you have faith, you can believe the impossible!


Sarcasm mode on. These articles have certainly cleared up any doubts the absolute truth of the Bible that I might have had Sarcasm mode off.

CJD

The short answer to your question, mark9950, is Yes, the goal of these predictions failed insofar as the conditions of these predictions had not been met.

I would suggest not flattening Scriptural prophecy into an entirely Western concept of "someone made a prediction so it must therefore come true." Scripture does not portray prophecy in this way (implicit conditions are attached everywhere). That is, the prophets were fully aware that any intervening historical contingency could radically change the direction of their prediction. Failing to understand this, is a failure to understand the very nature and motivation of the prophets themselves. In other words, what you are faulting the text for is really no fault of its own.

Without getting into a long explanation of how to read the neve'im, consider the following passage that is obviously conditional, and (I believe) paradigmatic:

"'If you have a willing attitude and obey, then you will again eat the good crops of the land. But if you refuse and rebel, you will be devoured by the sword.' Know for certain that the Lord has spoken" (Isa. 1:19–20).

I am challenging you to consider the notion that OT predictions are latent with conditions—expressly implied or no. Once we come to terms with how to read the prophets, Christians will no longer misuse them to bolster Scriptural inspiration, and atheists will no longer waste their breath falsely faulting the text. But until Hal Lindsey dies along with his Left Behind, I suppose that will never happen.

If what I have said here does not satiate your desire to fault the text, however, let me know, and I will explain myself further using your own examples.

CJD

keyser_soze

In other words, they made predictions that would come true...unless they didn't? And somehow we should not assume that since these prophets were inspired by god, he may have been pulling their proverbial "leg"?

Apikorus

They say that Trotsky was the most far-seeing of all the socialist thinkers, because his predictions have yet to come true.

CJD

Keyser_soze: ". . .he may have been pulling their proverbial "leg"?"


Emmendation: ". . . we should . . . assume that . . . he was inciting them to repent."

If the conditions of the prediction are not met, then we should no more expect the prophecies of the OT to be fulfilled positively than we should expect Trotsky's idyllic scene to come into fruition. Primarily, though, we must reattach the OT prophets' predictions to their original meaning. That is why they are not worth arguing about, either for or against the Christian message.

CJD

Stephen T-B

11am, July 14, 1994 Stephen TB made the following prophecy:
“Thus Saith the Lord: In five years’ time, the United States will go to war with the Chinese Republic and win a mighty victory, and a Disney theme park will be built within the shadow of the Great Wall of China.”

6.11pm, May 27, 2003 Stephen TB made the following statement: “Um, the reason my prophecy of 11am, July 14, 1996, didn’t come true is because in 1999 the US had other priorities. This should not, however, be taken by anyone as evidence of the fact that my prophecies are not divinely inspired. It is evidence that the Lord moves in mysterious ways. Thank you.”

CJD

Stephen, your point is quite beside the point (though I must say that your synopsis is decently accurate, if you cut out the blathering idiocy couched in the following: "This should not, however, be taken by anyone as evidence of the fact that my prophecies are not divinely inspired. It is evidence that the Lord moves in mysterious ways. Thank you."). I'm not arguing for "divine inspiration." I'm arguing for responsible reading.

I'll say it one more time. Prophecies in Scripture are in no way profitable in bolstering the claim that the text is inspired. In fact, arguing about Scriptural inspiration is the biggest waste of time I can think of. As long as so-and-so does not wreak havoc upon the plain sense of the passage in question, which must needs take into account other portions of the text, then I have no problems. However, the fact remains that sloppy and unlearned readings are not only prevalent, but are used as weapons against the Christian faith. Preposterous. It seems that many of you disdain the idea of being deprived of fuel.

CJD