Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Scottyman · 01-06-2003, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Amos
Please Scottyman, don't believe anything I say but just put your finger on the page and read Genesis 1, 2 and 3 as if this is the first time your read this.

This will bring forth the concept "essence precedes existence," in that in Gen. 1 the essense was created by God and that in Gen. 2 form was given to this essence by Lord God. "Man" was formed in the image of God and therefore God. Period. So yes, man is equal to both God and Lord God but not until after assention as it was made known by the exclamation of Thomas "my Lord and my God."

Woman was taken from man (not to be confused with females who are also man in the neuter form), to be the womb of man and the place wherein the image of God as man (or man as God)is procreated.

In Gen. 3 'like god' was added to become the conscious mind (TOK) of man and was needed to gather food, wisdom and beauty in effort to enhance the image of man as God. I think Mary Baker Eddy should have known this because it sound very scientific, does it not?

This second mind is a blank slate at birth and upon this slate we built our ego identity and now have two identities wherein we are both temporal and eternal. We are temporal in our ego identity and eternal in our God identity (and therefore it is believed that we are 'hot wired' for religion). Because of this duality the prefix -hu is added to man to render man a 'human' being. -Hu is from -humi and means 'earthly' which now means that 'man' without the prefix -hu is heavenly if you allow me to place heaven opposite to earth (the above also renders atheism the position of impoverished believers).

Of course the Catholic Church believes in one God, but they also accept the Son as the living God, and see us as the manifestation of God on earth. All we have to do is 'realize' this and we are given a chance to do this every Sunday when we say "amen" to the tranformation of bread and wine into the body and blood of Christ [the universal]. Let me add here that this transformation must take place in our mind.

I'm think the point I was making earlier is that you are alone in your assessment and interpretation of the bible. I wasn't at all trying to say whether I believed in your interpretation or not. I don't think you will find anyone out there that will support your conclusions. I could be wrong but I doubt it. As a Secular Humanist or Atheist (whatever you want to call it) I stopped believing in religion a long time ago so you're wasting your time trying to convince me otherwise.:banghead:

01-06-2003, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Scottyman
As a Secular Humanist or Atheist (whatever you want to call it) I stopped believing in religion a long time ago so you're wasting your time trying to convince me otherwise.:banghead:

Oh, but I am not trying to convince you otherwise. Did you get the connecton why I call atheists "impoverished believers?" The point here is that you can run away form religion but not from your own self.

Notice here too that I do not call atheists right or wrong.

Scottyman · 01-06-2003, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Amos
The point here is that you can run away form religion but not from your own self.

I think the point is here, that you're running so fast in the other direction it just looks like we're running away.

diana · 01-06-2003, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Amos
Save the effort Keith because you won't find it unless it is a wrong translation. The fact is that God is two causes removed form evil and cannot be the cause of it.

Good evening, Amos.

Quote:

Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these [things].

But I suppose you dismiss this, somehow, has a "wrong translation"?

Even if you do, the idea that God had to have created evil is implicit in the idea that God created the world and all that is in it.

Also, everywhere the KJV (the "right translation"?) says LORD God, that's simply the translator's way of saying "Jehovah."

I thought Jehovah was Dad all this time. You're saying he's the Son?

d

01-06-2003, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by diana
Also, everywhere the KJV (the "right translation"?) says LORD God, that's simply the translator's way of saying "Jehovah."

d

And good evening to you daina.

No, I think it's right but did you not see that it said "I the Lord do all these things."

Gosh, I hope them KJV translators didn't just use God or Lord God at random because that would be wrong, don't you think? Besides this, I know the KJV to be wrong on many places and so I burned my copy (I hated to do this because it was a gift).

Jehovah must have been the son if he said that. Right?

Scottyman · 01-07-2003, 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Amos
I know the KJV to be wrong on many places and so I burned my copy (I hated to do this because it was a gift).

diana · 01-07-2003, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Amos
And good evening to you daina.

No, I think it's right but did you not see that it said "I the Lord do all these things."

Gosh, I hope them KJV translators didn't just use God or Lord God at random because that would be wrong, don't you think? Besides this, I know the KJV to be wrong on many places and so I burned my copy (I hated to do this because it was a gift).

I did not suggest they used God or LORD God at random. If they did, it would be an even more flawed translation than it already is.

Quote:

Jehovah must have been the son if he said that. Right?

Said what?

d

01-07-2003, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by diana
I did not suggest they used God or LORD God at random. If they did, it would be an even more flawed translation than it already is.

Said what?

d

Right here form your quote:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these [things].
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As a side issue, if the Lord 'forms' light and 'creates' darkness, his darkness is just as illusory as his evil (and our sexuality). Notice the distinction between "form light and make peace" as opposed to "create darkness and evil." The point here is that Lord God as second cause can only create illusions because God is creator of all and he never created darkness.

Keith Russell · 01-07-2003, 04:25 PM

Scottyman:

I was raised in Christian Science, and I was never prevented from reading any part of the Bible. The weekly readings when I was growing up came from throughout the Bible, Old Testament and New. Nor can I recall any mention in my church at the time as to how members of other faiths would be treated upon death. Christian Science doesn't even believ in a punative 'Hell'.

As I was taught CS (my mother's teacher was a student of Mrs. Eddy), there is no hell but what we make for ourselves, either in this life or the next. CS teaches a succession of lives for everyone, not just Christian Scientists. None of these successive lives necessarily offers 'perfection' or 'paradise'. As for Hell, Christian Science doesn't even accept the notion of 'sin'.

What most Christian churches call 'sin', CS refers to as 'error'...

Keith.

Keith Russell · 01-07-2003, 04:34 PM

Isaih 45, KJV:
Thus saith the Lord to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut;
2. I will go before thee, and make the crooked places straight: I will break in pieces the gates of brass, and cut in sunder the bars of iron:
3. And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, the Lord, which call thee by thy name, am the God of Israel.
4. For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.
5. I am the Lord, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
6. That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the Lord, and there is none else.
7. I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.
8. Drop down, ye heavens, from above, and let the skies pour down righteousness: let the earth open, and let them bring forth salvation, and let righteousness spring up together; I the Lord have created it.

Keith.

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01-07-2003, 04:25 PM	#39
Keith Russell Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Overland Park, Kansas Posts: 1,336	Scottyman: I was raised in Christian Science, and I was never prevented from reading any part of the Bible. The weekly readings when I was growing up came from throughout the Bible, Old Testament and New. Nor can I recall any mention in my church at the time as to how members of other faiths would be treated upon death. Christian Science doesn't even believ in a punative 'Hell'. As I was taught CS (my mother's teacher was a student of Mrs. Eddy), there is no hell but what we make for ourselves, either in this life or the next. CS teaches a succession of lives for everyone, not just Christian Scientists. None of these successive lives necessarily offers 'perfection' or 'paradise'. As for Hell, Christian Science doesn't even accept the notion of 'sin'. What most Christian churches call 'sin', CS refers to as 'error'... Keith.

01-07-2003, 04:34 PM	#40
Keith Russell Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Overland Park, Kansas Posts: 1,336	Isaih 45, KJV: Thus saith the Lord to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut; 2. I will go before thee, and make the crooked places straight: I will break in pieces the gates of brass, and cut in sunder the bars of iron: 3. And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, the Lord, which call thee by thy name, am the God of Israel. 4. For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me. 5. I am the Lord, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: 6. That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the Lord, and there is none else. 7. I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things. 8. Drop down, ye heavens, from above, and let the skies pour down righteousness: let the earth open, and let them bring forth salvation, and let righteousness spring up together; I the Lord have created it. Keith.

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