Gary Welsh

This question is for theists.

It isn't specifically about the Existence of God, but it dovetails with many related arguments, involving Evil, Original Sin, predestination and so on.

diana

Please expand.

d

Gary Welsh

... it has bearing on whether omnibenevolence can be compatible with -- not only allowing the existence of evil -- but creating the option to choose evil in the first place.

Keith Russell

Greetings:

Well, the Bible clearly states that 'God' created evil.

Keith.

rainbow walking

from the theist's perspective will be the freewill defense, claiming that freewill's virtues supercede evils vices.

mothers

Could a god simply outlaw evil? Wouldn't we all be vegetables, then? And what constitutes evil? Does omniscience and omnipotence imply universal morality, and how could all individuals fit under that? I'd much rather form my own definition of what's right and wrong and live my life accordingly.

Gary Welsh

If God created evil, then how can he be omnibenevolent?

MrDarwin

Nobody tempted the devil, it's just that God made a horrible mistake when creating the poor flawed creature, then decided to make humans susceptible to the devil's temptation and allow the devil to make all kinds of mischief for a few thousand years, resulting in the damnation of billions of souls, before correcting the boo-boo.

Philosoft

Perhaps, but so what? If God never allowed evil to begin with, we wouldn't know otherwise. We wouldn't long for the freedom to choose evil because that particular choice wouldn't obtain.
That's not particularly persuasive given that you are speaking from a position that values the free will that already exists.

Gary Welsh

This is the typical Free Will Defense (FWD), correct? A world with evil and free will is better -- 'more good' -- than a world with no evil and no free will. And so, an omnibenevolent deity is naturally going to create the world which in which more good is obtained. So, going along that route, one has to argue that this is the "best of all possible worlds," -- a world in which evil exists, yes, but also one with genuine free will (whatever that means).

I can't help but make fun of this line of reasoning, just a little bit. After all, the Genesis story always looks to me like a big set-up, a parable to make every parent of mishievious children chuckle. God tells Adam and Eve they can eat anything but One Thing, much like parents might tell their children they can do whatever they want except for the One Thing that's forbidden. Of course, that ends up being the One Thing that they want more than anything else, because they can't have it. The children who are good obey, but the bad children disobey. But why is this? Why are children this way? Why are so many of them disobedient? That's just how they are. They're naturally curious -- and even a bit rebellious.

But while parents are not responsible for this aspect of their children -- after all, they made their children, but they didn't design them -- God is in a completely disanalogous position. He is not in the position of a parent who does his best to lay down some ground rules but is ultimately not responsible for that chaotic element in his children -- that rascality, or whatever you want to call it. He made them that way.