Jamie_L

I had this thought yesterday. It's probably not original, but it was original to me:

There are people with physical brain defects beyond their control that are not the result of any free choice made by people. These chemical imbalances and/or structural defects lead to behaviors that are essentially beyond the conscious control of these individulas. Anything from depression to kleptomania to homicidal mania.

It seems to me that the existence of these illnesses poses a difficult, if not insurmountable difficulty for the Free Will Defense to the Problem of Evil.

If God were omnipotent and omnibenevolent, he could reduce the suffering in the world by eliminating these illnesses. For example, eliminating kleptomania would reduce the total amount of stealing in the world (a clearly defined sin per the 10 Commandments in Christianity). At the same time, the affected people would gain more Free Will, because once free of kleptomania they can make a free choice to steal or not to steal, rather than being compelled to steal by internal forces beyond their control.

The same holds true for a variety of other mental illnesses. Eliminate these diseases/defects and the suffering in the world goes down while the Human Free Will increases. It's a win-win for a benevolent being who values Free Will.

So, if God values Free Will and wants to reduce suffering, what's up with all the mental illness in the world that robs people of free will and forces them to create suffering.

As a corolary, notice there aren't that many mental illnesses that compell people to do things that reduce suffering. Makes you wonder.

Jamie

PaladInChrist

You might as well ask why there is any disease in the world. The fall of man is a bitch...

Amaranth

Non sequitur. Xian apologetics says that god does not display himself openly in order to preserve free will. If this is so, it is illogical that he would remove a large number of peoples free will through mental illness. Taking away free will is not comperable to his removal of health or life.

christ-on-a-stick

PaladInChrist - Well alrighty then.

Quick question for ya: of course I am familiar with the assertion that "Adam's Fall" was responsible for the entry of disease into the world.

So, even assuming that the Fall was what made God decide to allow disease and suffering in the world.... who created and designed the specific diseases?

I mean, assuming you believe that the universe was a product of intelligent design (God), then the intricate workings of pathogens, bacteria, viruses etc. must have been "designed" as they are quite complex.

So who "designed" malaria, determining how it would be spread, the symptoms and fatal effects?

Various cancers? Alzheimer's? Multiple sclerosis? Ebola? According to your theology, they couldn't have just sprung into existence from nowhere, right?

And specifically to address Jamie's OP - who designed and created mental diseases such as schizophrenia, which obviously affect people's alleged freewill?

fishbulb

In fact, these are just obvious examples of something that is universally true: you are a product of your biology and environment.

Even if you have nothing resembling a mental illness, your actions are dictated by what you are. Try holding your breath until you die. You can't do it; your body will begin to breathe on its own after a point, regardless of how hard you "will" yourself not to breathe.

A soldier in a phalanx going into spear to spear combat with an enemy knew that the most dangerous thing he could ever do was turn and run. Yet at some point in the fighting, soldiers did turn and run. They knew that they were more likely to be killed running away than they were to be killed standing and fighting, but their instinct overcame their conscious judgement and they ran anyway.

These are extreme and obvious examples, but what we are affects us in subtler ways as well. Take two people and give them the choice to have another drink or not, and the degree to which the choice is made consciously will be different between the two. Most actions are based in part on conscious decisions and in part on instinct and programming. The degrees may vary, but the two components are almost always there and can't be supressed or ignored.

The notion that anyone is somehow in complete and conscious control over what they do all the time seems rather absurd, given what we understand of human behaviour.

Llyricist

hmmmm this argument sounds familiar

6th from the bottom

PaladInChrist

Um, that isn't one of _my_ arguments. God does display Himself openly if you ask Him to do so.

At least, He did for me.

:notworthy

PaladInChrist

Evolution.

Amaranth

Horse shit. There's a long line of us here who were xian, and most of the more avid debunkers here are ex-fundies.

HaysooChreesto!

Really? Does he have green feet like it says in Revelations? Did He make your head glow? Does He really have a beard? And if so is the big full white one or is it more of a Beatnik-esque Fu Man Chu?
I'm also wondering if he opened his robe while openly displaying himself to you or was it more of a quck flash? That last question leads to Unholy thoughts so I'll stop there.