Freethought & Rationalism Archive

ElCid · 06-16-2003, 11:42 PM

There is a famous passage in the bible (I'm not sure where) that says something like "For God so loved the world that he sent his only son and that whoever believes in him shall not die." A reasonable interpretation of this would be that god loves us so much that he sent his only son to die for us, that he made a supreme sacrifice for us. It's the only son part that has me confused. I get the feeling that only couldn't apply to an omnipotent god. Technically, god could create Jesus again, and he could do it ad infinitum. If this was true, then god's sacrifice becomes meaningless; in fact it no longer a sacrifice. Unless Jesus was preordained by a power greater than god, then God mearly created a person arbitrarily and said 'this one will do.' It also appears as though Jesus is some sort of buffer between humans and god. It just seems pointless to me. Jesus appears to be nothing more than A means to an end, not the means, since it is god that ultimately would decide our fate. If god feels he needs a buffer, then quite frankly, FUCK HIM!!!!

Peter Kirby · 06-16-2003, 11:45 PM

Since the emphasis is not history or exegesis, I will move it to GRD.

best,
Peter Kirby

The_Unknown_Banana · 06-17-2003, 04:54 AM

Well, considering he got resurrected a few days afterwards anyway... Not to mention the fact that, because he has his master plan and predestined everything, he knew Jesus wouldn't be dead for long. Not much of a sacrifice he's making...

CaptainOfOuterSpace · 06-17-2003, 07:57 AM

Excellent point.
If Jesus himself was God, didn't he know that he would be resurrected shortly after his "death"? So where's the sacrifice?
I could understand if Jesus was made to suffer in hell for all eternity for our sins -- now there's a sacrifice. But instead, Jesus simply returned to heaven... for our sins! What a deal!

If Jesus died for our sins, then why isn't he dead?

Also, concerning the "only begotten son" part, I think that this is just supposed to draw upon emotions -- we're supposed to feel sorry for God because he gave up his only son. (even though he really didn't give him up)

06-16-2003, 11:42 PM	#1
ElCid Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 13	Does Jesus have any meaning? There is a famous passage in the bible (I'm not sure where) that says something like "For God so loved the world that he sent his only son and that whoever believes in him shall not die." A reasonable interpretation of this would be that god loves us so much that he sent his only son to die for us, that he made a supreme sacrifice for us. It's the only son part that has me confused. I get the feeling that only couldn't apply to an omnipotent god. Technically, god could create Jesus again, and he could do it ad infinitum. If this was true, then god's sacrifice becomes meaningless; in fact it no longer a sacrifice. Unless Jesus was preordained by a power greater than god, then God mearly created a person arbitrarily and said 'this one will do.' It also appears as though Jesus is some sort of buffer between humans and god. It just seems pointless to me. Jesus appears to be nothing more than A means to an end, not the means, since it is god that ultimately would decide our fate. If god feels he needs a buffer, then quite frankly, FUCK HIM!!!!

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06-16-2003, 11:45 PM	#2
Peter Kirby Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: the reliquary of Ockham's razor Posts: 4,035	Since the emphasis is not history or exegesis, I will move it to GRD. best, Peter Kirby

06-17-2003, 04:54 AM	#3
The_Unknown_Banana Regular Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: New Zealand Posts: 179	Well, considering he got resurrected a few days afterwards anyway... Not to mention the fact that, because he has his master plan and predestined everything, he knew Jesus wouldn't be dead for long. Not much of a sacrifice he's making...

06-17-2003, 07:57 AM	#4
CaptainOfOuterSpace Regular Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Cleveland, OH, USA Posts: 137	Excellent point. If Jesus himself was God, didn't he know that he would be resurrected shortly after his "death"? So where's the sacrifice? I could understand if Jesus was made to suffer in hell for all eternity for our sins -- now there's a sacrifice. But instead, Jesus simply returned to heaven... for our sins! What a deal! If Jesus died for our sins, then why isn't he dead? Also, concerning the "only begotten son" part, I think that this is just supposed to draw upon emotions -- we're supposed to feel sorry for God because he gave up his only son. (even though he really didn't give him up)

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