High Ideologue

Would any atheists be willing to concede that the theory that our universe is composed in large part of so called dark matter and dark energy leaves open the possibility that a divine eternal essence to self and world might also exist undetected by science?

Rousseau_CHN

Your reasoning is a classic case of an 'appeal to ignorance.'
Not because I don't know doesn't mean it exists. It only means we should try harder to discover the truth behind 'dark matters' and what else. To claim supernatural explanation to things unknown is simply indolence. We have progressed through the years, let's not return to time where unknown can simply be brushed off as "handiworks of God."

Jayjay

Yes, but let us not forget the possibility of pink, transparent single-horned horselike creatures existing undetected by science as well.

Anyway, what does "self" have to do with dark matter? That is over there, we are over here... unless it is the denseness of the religionists that keeps galaxies together.

Ut

Science never has, does not, and never will make any claims, positive or negative, on supernatural entities like "divine eternal essence". The job of science is to study nature.

Daggah

Yeah, I have no problem saying that it's possible.

But there's little point in me believing in something if there isn't any evidence for or against it.

Perchance

Hello High Idealogue,

Why should the mere existence of dark matter suggest a divine eternal self? What is the connection between them?

And if you feel it suggested one of the three, then how do the other two come about? If there is a self, why must it be divine and eternal? If it is eternal, why must it be a self (that is, self-aware)? And so on.

For the record, I think if a god did exist, then it's extremely likely that man's limited conceptions of the divine would totally ignore it. As it is, people tend, I think, to look for evidence of their particular god, rather than for a god. I would expect Christian scientists to totally ignore evidence that would point up the existence of the IPU.

Let me ask you a question in turn: Are you willing to concede the possibility of a totally naturalistic universe, assuming you can't find any evidence for god, or do you think there has to be a god somewhere?

-Perchance.

Vorkosigan

Sure, I'm willing to concede anything. What's the rate of pay, and in what currency?

Eudaimonist

Are you saying that God has mass? LOL! You might as well ask: do you concede that neutron stars might be God?

Peregrine

I actually view it as the opposite. If a g*d does exist, then he used dark matter to correct a poor original design. Not very g*d-like.

High Ideologue

Dark matter does not suggest a divine eternal self and world per se. However, as I understand it, atheism is predicated on the exclusion of a divine eternal essence to self and world from a naturalistic model of self and universe. Since atheists seem determined to promote the idea that there is no divine eternal essence to self and world, I wonder whether large problems with their models of our physical universe such the postulated existence of dark matter and dark energy cause any problems for them in maintaining their convictions.

I think, believe and expect more than a few scientists would like to know.

Your use of the phrase 'must' suggest to me that you think that I am trying pass off myth and fantasy based on the mystery of existence (the possible existence of a divine eternal essence to self and world) as truth and knowledge based on the discovery of existence. I assure you I am not and assure you that I can make a positive distinction between myth and fantasy based on the mystery of existence and truth and knowledge based on the discovery of existence.

I wrote a book entitled the House of Ideology Manifesto about all of these kinds of questions. It is available to anyone to read free of charge at the official website of the High Ideologue of the House of Ideology located @ http://4iam.tripod.com A more complete exposition on these topics may be found there.

Yes it is possible that the life we experience is merely a byproduct of a totally naturalistic universe. However I recognize that like my belief in the existence of a divine eternal essence of self and world, belief in a totally naturalistic universe is one possibility out of a number, diversity, and variety only limited by our creative abilities and powers of imagination.