Freethought & Rationalism Archive

brighid · 11-21-2002, 08:23 AM

Here is an article that I have not yet finished about Asherah and her place in Hebrew Mythology, it is quite long and from a feminist perspective :

<a href="http://www.amaranthine.freeserve.co.uk/pages/goddess_writings/asherah.htm" target="_blank">http://www.amaranthine.freeserve.co.uk/pages/goddess_writings/asherah.htm</a>

Brighid

Celsus · 11-21-2002, 08:31 AM

There's plenty of material out there. Type in "asherah yhwh consort" into a search engine, but I can't guarantee whether you'll get serious sites or not. Most of them are either hard-nut fundy or hard-nut pagan/liberal (last time I checked). Don't know about actual scholarly sites.

Best excuse, I've seen:

"We can't capitalise the 'A' in asherah because of the article. Therefore it can't refer to the goddess, but rather to some sort of grove or pole." or something to that effect (the idea of a 'grove' was how the original KJV translators understood 'asherah'!) And anyway, the Bible is quite adament about tearing down asherah poles, so if the Israelites believed that Yahweh's home was an asherah pole, then their prophets were telling them to burn down Yahweh's houses.

Anyway, the book Stephen T-B mentioned has some brief info, but I'd like to know what sources the author used when mentioning that articles were inserted into the OT to obscure references to Asherah.

Bible Humper · 11-21-2002, 08:34 AM

Thanks Brighid!

Heavy stuff, I've only read the first 4 paragraphs so far, but perhaps it is time for Xianity to quit dragging their feet and modernise, and allow Mother Mary and Asherah into their pantheon. They can still use the same double think used with Jesus, and say that they are all of the same essense, or whatever, so they still get to call themselves monotheists!

Praise Him! And Her!

cymbalina · 11-21-2002, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bible Humper:
...perhaps it is time for Xianity to quit dragging their feet and modernise, and allow Mother Mary and Asherah into their pantheon.

I thought the Catholic Church was considering just that recently... whatever did happen to the effort to make Mary the co-redemptrix? I thought that sounded like a great idea.
Cymbalina

jess · 11-21-2002, 05:20 PM

all KJV:

1:jer 7

Quote:

18 The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven,

1:jer 17-19

Quote:

17 But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouth, to burn incense unto the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes, in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem: for then had we plenty of victuals, and were well, and saw no evil.
18 But since we left off to burn incense to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, we have wanted all things, and have been consumed by the sword and by the famine.
19 And when we burned incense to the queen of heaven, and poured out drink offerings unto her, did we make her cakes to worship her, and pour out drink offerings unto her, without our men?

1 jer 25

Quote:

25 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, saying; Ye and your wives have both spoken with your mouths, and fulfilled with your hand, saying, We will surely perform our vows that we have vowed, to burn incense to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her: ye will surely accomplish your vows, and surely perform your vows.

Believed to be vestigial biblical evidence of Yahweh's wife. She is more prevelant in Jewish tradition, but she is in the bible.

ashibaka · 11-21-2002, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jess:
Believed to be vestigial biblical evidence of Yahweh's wife.

Well, either that or, when the book of Jeremiah was written, God was experimenting with drag.

abe smith · 11-22-2002, 05:48 AM

Response to initial OP qy, "why was (sic) jaweh single?" .... A Perfect Absolutely self-sufficient Narcissist like that Initial Androgyne doesn't NEED ANYTHING. And it prompts the thought >>>>> "Might as well be dead". Is he then in a state of permanent jacking-off orgasm? sheesh, how BORING! DID elohim therefore create creation because he(sic) got bored w/ "his" own inFable perfection? My my......

abe smith · 11-22-2002, 05:54 AM

(sorry ) PS >>>> somewhere sometime within previous decade or so, verid report of lab rats wired w/ "ecstasy" implants, who (the rats) kept on pushing the trigger-bar to produce the ecstasy, heedless of all other needs, until they *died*. Izz that then what killed "God"?

lugotorix · 11-22-2002, 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by joejoejoe:
Yahweh wasn't always single. He had the lovely Asherah, although it seems he got dumped or something and then went all raving mad to get rid of Israelite worship of her circa 700BCE.

Actually, I heard they got a divorce and he got custody of the kids...

Quote:

(The mental gymnastics Christians will go to to explain away the existence of 8th and 9th century BCE idols depicting the two together are astounding.)

Yes, but mental gymnastics are something that Christians do as part of their daily regimen
(speaking as an ex-Christian m'self).

lugotorix

brighid · 11-22-2002, 07:17 AM

BH,

Yeap, some heavy stuff but I came across a lot of fluff that didn�t have anything scholarly to really back up the claims. I haven�t read through all of it yet, but I like what I have read so far.

I have always found it interesting that the Abrahamic faiths claims this � I don�t know � complete lack of connection to the �divine feminine� so abundant through out the ENTIRE world prior to the misogynist priesthood wiping most traces of Her out. As if they sprang up and were immune to the societies, cultures and religions around them and that existed LONG before.

Although it really is NO surprise because the average Christian or JC theist doesn�t know jack squat about the evolution of their own religion! The contortions the minds of the cognitively impaired must do!

Brighid

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11-21-2002, 08:23 AM	#11
brighid Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: somewhere in the known Universe Posts: 6,993	Here is an article that I have not yet finished about Asherah and her place in Hebrew Mythology, it is quite long and from a feminist perspective : <a href="http://www.amaranthine.freeserve.co.uk/pages/goddess_writings/asherah.htm" target="_blank">http://www.amaranthine.freeserve.co.uk/pages/goddess_writings/asherah.htm</a> Brighid

11-21-2002, 08:31 AM	#12
Celsus Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Singapore Posts: 2,875	There's plenty of material out there. Type in "asherah yhwh consort" into a search engine, but I can't guarantee whether you'll get serious sites or not. Most of them are either hard-nut fundy or hard-nut pagan/liberal (last time I checked). Don't know about actual scholarly sites. Best excuse, I've seen: "We can't capitalise the 'A' in asherah because of the article. Therefore it can't refer to the goddess, but rather to some sort of grove or pole." or something to that effect (the idea of a 'grove' was how the original KJV translators understood 'asherah'!) And anyway, the Bible is quite adament about tearing down asherah poles, so if the Israelites believed that Yahweh's home was an asherah pole, then their prophets were telling them to burn down Yahweh's houses. Anyway, the book Stephen T-B mentioned has some brief info, but I'd like to know what sources the author used when mentioning that articles were inserted into the OT to obscure references to Asherah.

11-21-2002, 08:34 AM	#13
Bible Humper Veteran Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,125	Thanks Brighid! Heavy stuff, I've only read the first 4 paragraphs so far, but perhaps it is time for Xianity to quit dragging their feet and modernise, and allow Mother Mary and Asherah into their pantheon. They can still use the same double think used with Jesus, and say that they are all of the same essense, or whatever, so they still get to call themselves monotheists! Praise Him! And Her!

11-22-2002, 05:48 AM	#17
abe smith Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: springfield, MA. USA Posts: 2,482	Response to initial OP qy, "why was (sic) jaweh single?" .... A Perfect Absolutely self-sufficient Narcissist like that Initial Androgyne doesn't NEED ANYTHING. And it prompts the thought >>>>> "Might as well be dead". Is he then in a state of permanent jacking-off orgasm? sheesh, how BORING! DID elohim therefore create creation because he(sic) got bored w/ "his" own inFable perfection? My my......

11-22-2002, 05:54 AM	#18
abe smith Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: springfield, MA. USA Posts: 2,482	(sorry ) PS >>>> somewhere sometime within previous decade or so, verid report of lab rats wired w/ "ecstasy" implants, who (the rats) kept on pushing the trigger-bar to produce the ecstasy, heedless of all other needs, until they died. Izz that then what killed "God"?

11-22-2002, 07:17 AM	#20
brighid Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: somewhere in the known Universe Posts: 6,993	BH, Yeap, some heavy stuff but I came across a lot of fluff that didn�t have anything scholarly to really back up the claims. I haven�t read through all of it yet, but I like what I have read so far. I have always found it interesting that the Abrahamic faiths claims this � I don�t know � complete lack of connection to the �divine feminine� so abundant through out the ENTIRE world prior to the misogynist priesthood wiping most traces of Her out. As if they sprang up and were immune to the societies, cultures and religions around them and that existed LONG before. Although it really is NO surprise because the average Christian or JC theist doesn�t know jack squat about the evolution of their own religion! The contortions the minds of the cognitively impaired must do! Brighid

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