Steve K

I'm curious if anyone here (Seraphim?) has any thoughts on the Heart Sutra.

http://www.buddhanet.net/heartstr.htm


I've looked a lot on the internet and just about every place says it doesn't reflect nihilism, but I can't seem to get a straight answer about how it doesn't reflect nihilism. In other words; what possible interpretation of the Heart Sutra is non-nihilistic?

Maybe it's just beyond me.

- Steve

Seraphim

What exactly do you want to know?

And "sigh" I hate long paragraphs ... remind me too much of reading reports in my workplace.

Steve K

long paragraphs? Am I being too verbose?

Anyways, the heart of my question is: Is the Heart Sutra nihilistic?

It seems that way to me. If it is not, I'm clearly missing something. Could you explain the concept I'm missing?

Thanks

- Steve

Seraphim

"Is the Heart Sutra nihilistic? "

What's Nihilistic means? Sorry, my English voculabury ain't very high-tech.

Steve K

So the Heart Sutra says there is no this, no that, etc, etc. In the end it seems like there is simply nothing. That doesn't seem to be the way that most of the Buddhist websites I have read see it.

What am I missing in the Sutra or the way I'm thinking about it? Obviously my conclusion (this says that ultimately nothing matters) is not the same as the conclusions' of others.

- Steve

Seraphim

By Steve K

So the Heart Sutra says there is no this, no that, etc, etc. In the end it seems like there is simply nothing. That doesn't seem to be the way that most of the Buddhist websites I have read see it.

What am I missing in the Sutra or the way I'm thinking about it? Obviously my conclusion (this says that ultimately nothing matters) is not the same as the conclusions' of others.

- Steve

I'm had been reading through it now and the first two chapters (those texts) indicates that it is trying to mix Buddhism with Toaism and even other believes such as Mahayana etc.

Basic things about Buddhism is still the Four Noble Paths and such, so why worry about something else?

It seems that this website you gave expend whatever teachings of Buddhism (like about Ego, the Sensors etc) into a more complex version.

Take "HE PERCEIVED THAT ALL FIVE SKANDHAS ARE EMPTY" text. What I read so far simply an expand of the Right Living, Right Speech, Right Conducts etc into a more complex version. They even added supernatural points of views in it (such as the 6 realms of existence - which is OK by me but may not be OK by those who is a bit Atheists in nature).

Seraphim

I just finished (browsing through and reading a bit) some of the texts in that site. I believe it simply expand Buddha's sermon about the Four Noble Truth and about the Right Understanding, Thoughts, Conducts etc into a more complex version by adding more complex examples.

This website I believe should be suitable for those in Buddhism for a long time OR those who are living in such understanding in their daily lives since they could understand it better.

As for me, It gives me a headache.

Buddhism, at least according to my understanding is not about saying NOTHING matters, it is simply stating that we always make things more complex than it already is.

We add our own definations when we receive information through our 5 sensors (Sight, Smell, hearing, touch and taste) and Ego by our understandings of the world around you. Buddhism (in my opinion) simply help humanity to cut off this definations (or attachments if you will) from the world so we will see the world and ourselves as what it (and ourselves) trully is.

"In real world, the spoon cannot bend, Thus the spoon doesn't exist"
- The boy in Buddhist robe in Matrix.

Answerer

No, definitely not. Simply put, the purpose of the Heart Sutras is to drive out falsehood in one's views or perception. Of course, the words like 'emptiness' and void that are used in the sutras, do not mean nothingness. It used to illusrate the point that all things(including views, senses, egos) are in fact are not independent of each other(or haivng a permanent self) and are constantly changing in respect to one's surroundings. Of course, all the above is only a simplication. Anyway, just don't be too attached to 'words'. Look beyond that.

Hope I'm clear.

bagong

Well, "emptiness" in the Prajñaa-paaramitaa literature (to which the Heart Sutra belongs) is interpreted differently by the 2 main Mahaayaana philosophical systems, Madhyamaka and Yogaacaara, of which only the former has been accused of being nihilistic. So even if you conclude that the maadhyamika position is nihilistic, sutras that proclaim emptiness can still be interpreted in the yogaacaarin manner.

The madhyamaka position is primarily a reaction against the earlier Abhidharma interpretation of Dependent Origination; it is difficult to explain what "empty of own-nature" means without first explaining Abhidharma theories about dharmas and their own-nature.

This article article offers a pretty clear explanation of the problem without expecting too much background knowledge: http://www.westernbuddhistreview.com...adhyamaka.html

lugotorix

The Heart Sutra is a really odd one. It's chanted several times daily in most Mahayana sects, even though it seems to negate all of the Buddha's teaching (no Four Noble Truths, no Dependent Origination, etc.). It also does not have the traditional form of the other sutras -- it doesn't start with "Thus have I heard" (the I being Ananda, the Buddha's personal attendant who supposedly memorized all of the sutras the Buddha ever spoke), and it doesn't give a location where it occurred.

It seems nihilistic because it is using the idea of súnyata, which here is translated as the Void, but is more often translated as emptiness. I prefer the latter precisely because it sound less absolute and nihilistic. The phrase The Void tends to make most people think of The Abyss, which is not what is intended. By emptiness, it means empty of a separate self or unchanging essence.

The sutra is trying to illustrate the idea of emptiness by showing how an enlightened being (Avalokitesvara) experiences it and abides in Nirvana in spite of being in the world. The things it is negating -- the five skandhas, the things the senses convey to us, etc. -- are the things that keep ordinary beings trapped in suffering. By seeing through their apparent solidity to their underlying flux and constant change, the bodhisattvas become detached from all the causes of suffering (attachment, aversion, and ignorance of the true nature of reality).

I hope this helped a bit. If you're interested in a more in-depth discussion of this sutra and another (the Diamond Sutra), you can check out this essay on a Chan Buddhist site .

lugotorix