Freethought & Rationalism Archive

yguy · 06-08-2003, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Llyricist
Unless you mean "imaged in the mind" instead of conceptualized, this makes absolutely no sense.

You are in effect saying that you believe in something but you have absolutely no idea what it is. You cannot make ANY claims about this God because then you would have some concept of what god is, and you say you can't do that.

If memory serves, the only claim I've made about God is that he's the source of all good, which is essentially tautological. Every other assertion about Him has been with respect to what He is not.

I've stated my opinion that He is the God of the Bible, but all that tells you is what sorts of people He thought were good or bad, and some of His actions. Likewise, never having seen Bill Gates, you could perhaps infer something about him from dealings with MS imployees, but that wouldn't tell you whether he fantasizes about Catherine Zeta-Jones.

yguy · 06-08-2003, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nowhere357
In what way is your conceptualization - or whatever - of god, different from the Tao of Zen? Maybe this would help me to see your position better.

I'm not that familiar with Taoism, but I don't suppose Taoists see God as a person. I do.

Of course, this gets us hung up again with the "invisible man in the sky" thing. I mean God is a person because He has a will, not because He has arms and legs. He wants this to happen, and not that. It is in that sense that we are made in His image, IMO.

Nowhere357 · 06-08-2003, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by yguy
I'm not that familiar with Taoism, but I don't suppose Taoists see God as a person. I do.

Of course, this gets us hung up again with the "invisible man in the sky" thing. I mean God is a person because He has a will, not because He has arms and legs. He wants this to happen, and not that. It is in that sense that we are made in His image, IMO.

The Tao (Way) represents the characteristics or behavior that makes each thing in the universe what it is.

Llyricist · 06-08-2003, 10:17 PM

Quote:

I've stated my opinion that He is the God of the Bible, but all that tells you is what sorts of people He thought were good or bad, and some of His actions. Likewise, never having seen Bill Gates, you could perhaps infer something about him from dealings with MS imployees, but that wouldn't tell you whether he fantasizes about Catherine Zeta-Jones.

Have you even read the Bible?? Right there near the beginning it says he created us in his image..... seems to me the bible says an awful lot about this God guy. In fact I could think of a lot of things right off hand I could say about God straight from the descriptions in the Bible, not many that are flattering however.

diana · 06-08-2003, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by yguy
That would be true if your premise had any merit, which in my view it doesn't.

yguy,

If you wish to engage in discussion, please refrain from simple gainsaying of comments you don't like, as such things get us nowhere and tend to paint you not so much as an interested participant in the discussion as simply a jerk.

You agreed to not be a jerk when you registered.

You're more than welcome to disagree with whatever you wish, but please take a moment to address precisely why you disagree. "Your premise has no merit" needs a bit of expansion and explanation. Why, in your view, does his/her premise have no merit?

Thank you for your understanding.

d

Theli · 06-09-2003, 05:42 AM

Quote:

None of that is a conceptualization of God, at least in the sense that I'm using the word.

If god cannot be conceptualized, then what does the word "god" mean?

Family Man · 06-09-2003, 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Theli
If god cannot be conceptualized, then what does the word "god" mean?

God has to be conceptualized. Without conceptualization, there can be no meaning.

Yguy's posts are just another attempt to define God in such a way that it is unfalsifiable. If you can't conceptualize God, you can't refute the concept, can you? It's just theistic hot-air.

yguy · 06-09-2003, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by diana
yguy,

If you wish to engage in discussion, please refrain from simple gainsaying of comments you don't like, as such things get us nowhere and tend to paint you not so much as an interested participant in the discussion as simply a jerk.

You agreed to not be a jerk when you registered.

You're more than welcome to disagree with whatever you wish, but please take a moment to address precisely why you disagree. "Your premise has no merit" needs a bit of expansion and explanation. Why, in your view, does his/her premise have no merit?

Thank you for your understanding.

d

Your gratitude is premature. What the hell are you talking about? How on earth does saying what I think constitute being a jerk? Am I somehow violating the user agreement by, having attempted to explain myself for the ninety-ninth time, failing to do so on the hundredth; or by failing to dissect an assertion which it turns out was mistakenly attributed to me by Nowhere357 to begin with?

yguy · 06-09-2003, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Llyricist
Have you even read the Bible?? Right there near the beginning it says he created us in his image..... seems to me the bible says an awful lot about this God guy. In fact I could think of a lot of things right off hand I could say about God straight from the descriptions in the Bible, not many that are flattering however.

Fine. If you want to somehow piece together a conceptualization of God from what's in there, be my guest. It's a waste of time if you want to know Him. Scripture isn't meant to be used that way, IMO, but to bear witness to the truth within one's self.

yguy · 06-09-2003, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Family Man
God has to be conceptualized. Without conceptualization, there can be no meaning.

If by this you mean to say that 99+% of discussion about God is meaningless, you have no argument from me.

Quote:

If you can't conceptualize God, you can't refute the concept, can you?

Why do you wish to refute the concept?

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