Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Nowhere357 · 06-08-2003, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by yguy
Since God cannot be conceptualized, it follows that those who worship a God who CAN be conceptualized - whethere it be the "Christian God" (invisible man in the sky), Hindu gods, or Allah - don't worship God. This, I believe, is one reason for the commandment against graven images.

I think the "commandment against graven images" is a product of a "conceptualized" god, so by your own argument, those who follow it "don't worship God".

yguy · 06-08-2003, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nowhere357
I think the "commandment against graven images" is a product of a "conceptualized" god, so by your own argument, those who follow it "don't worship God".

That would be true if your premise had any merit, which in my view it doesn't.

sodium · 06-08-2003, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by yguy
The way I look at it, faith in God is something we're born with, but which we learn to doubt through exactly the sort of temptation I referred to, though it almost never takes anything as extreme as physical torture.

So, would you then contend that societies were originally theistic, and only became animistic or polytheistic later? If belief in God is inborn, it would be hard to argue otherwise.

Nowhere357 · 06-08-2003, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by yguy
That would be true if your premise had any merit, which in my view it doesn't.

It was your premise, and I agree it has no merit.

yguy · 06-08-2003, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nowhere357
It was your premise,

Not true. Sorry.

yguy · 06-08-2003, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sodium
So, would you then contend that societies were originally theistic, and only became animistic or polytheistic later?

Yes. Of course that runs counter to evolutionary theory, but I'm not bothered by that.

Nowhere357 · 06-08-2003, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by yguy
Not true. Sorry.

Is true, sorry.

Quote:

Since God cannot be conceptualized, it follows that those who worship a God who CAN be conceptualized - whethere it be the "Christian God" (invisible man in the sky), Hindu gods, or Allah - don't worship God. This, I believe, is one reason for the commandment against graven images.

The bible contains a conceptualization of god. Part of this conceptualization includes the idea of the importance ot the teachings (it claims divinity!).

One of those teachings is the commandment against graven images.

So to follow that teaching is to accept the biblical conception of god, and so is not worshiping god - by your own argument.

Sorry! But I'm not responsible for the inconsistency of your worldview.

yguy · 06-08-2003, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nowhere357
The bible contains a conceptualization of god. Part of this conceptualization includes the idea of the importance ot the teachings (it claims divinity!).

None of that is a conceptualization of God, at least in the sense that I'm using the word.

You can conceptualize a plane, spaceship, or a pink unicorn - but not God. Teachings are not necessarily part of a conceptualization of God, though I suppose one could use them in that fashion. I don't.

Llyricist · 06-08-2003, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by yguy
Since God cannot be conceptualized, it follows that those who worship a God who CAN be conceptualized - whethere it be the "Christian God" (invisible man in the sky), Hindu gods, or Allah - don't worship God. This, I believe, is one reason for the commandment against graven images.

Unless you mean "imaged in the mind" instead of conceptualized, this makes absolutely no sense.

You are in effect saying that you believe in something but you have absolutely no idea what it is. You cannot make ANY claims about this God because then you would have some concept of what god is, and you say you can't do that.

Nowhere357 · 06-08-2003, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by yguy
None of that is a conceptualization of God, at least in the sense that I'm using the word.

You can conceptualize a plane, spaceship, or a pink unicorn - but not God. Teachings are not necessarily part of a conceptualization of God, though I suppose one could use them in that fashion. I don't.

In what way is your conceptualization - or whatever - of god, different from the Tao of Zen? Maybe this would help me to see your position better.

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