Hubzilla

What religions are older than Judaism? Were there any middle eastern/mesopotamian flourishing by the time the Hebrews came around?

When did the Jews come around, and when was Genesis written?

It seems like a lot of questions, but I'm sure someone can point me in the right direction. I'm having an argument with a friend who says that Yahweh was the original god of mankind, but I asked him why no cultures before the Jews knew of that diety.

mibby529

Hinduism is older than Judaism, as are the ancient Chinese and Egyptian belief systems. Many American Indian beliefs can be traced to at least ten thousand years ago by archaeologists - defeating Ussher's timeline.

Godless Dave

The Sumerian and Babylonian mythologies predate Judaism. In fact the creation story in Genesis is based on a Babylonian story.

godfry n. glad

I rather suspect your question needs some refinement. For example, what do you mean by "Judaism"? The religious belief system utilized by current practitioners is a bit different from that practiced by the pilgrims who came to the Temple at Jerusalem in the 1st century BCE. The Old Testament, or Tanakh, has its inception in a revision and amendment sometimes dated to the sixth century BCE. It is postulated that earlier traditions had multiple gods of which YHWH was one; the one deemed special for Israelites.

Depending upon how demanding your question is, the whole issue of when the "Jews" came into being and when they started observing the preeminance of YHWH can generate a variety of possible answers.

There are a number of scholarly sources on indigenous Canaanite religions that might be of some assistance in determining the time which the YHWHist cult practice distinguished itself from the other religions of the area. Others here can probably provide better references than I.

As to older, even the Old Testament itself attests to the older traditions of both Egypt and Sumer. I'd guess that Zoroastrianism even has a possible edge on Judaism with regards monotheism.

godfry n. glad

lpetrich

Akhnaton's worship of the Sun as the only god Aton also beats out the composition of the OT/Tanakh, he had lived 1369-1332 BCE.

And that is not nearly the oldest documented religion; those of Egypt and Mesopotamia are documented in some of the earliest writings from there.

Looking back further requires some extrapolation, but there also it is possible to make some progress.

The ancestral Indo-European religion, practiced ~ 4500-3500 BCE, featured several deities, such as "Father Sky" and a war god who wields an ax and fights a snake monster (Thor, Indra, etc.).

And looking back even further, there is a statuette from Catal Huyuk (~5500 BCE) showing a woman giving birth -- with a big cat on each side. Which is like the Classical deity Artemis, who is a Mistress of Animals who helps women give birth.

Marduk

And let's not forget The Green Man! He, along with the chubby chick that lpetrich mentioned, go back 10K years if not more.
"I'm full of babies!, my babies are full of babies!"

GarColga

Not sure how to make a link w/UBB, but check out the URL below for an interesting article about excavations of an ancient temple in Jordan which is supposedly shedding some light on the beginnings of monotheism among the Israelites and others.

<a href="http://www.100megsfree4.com/farshores/amtemp.htm" target="_blank">Migdol Temple</a>

Hey it was easy! click on the link!

rodahi

YAHWEH
According to Donald B. Redford, Egyptian texts list among various names the following: "YHW (in) the land of the Shasu." He continues, "For half a century it has been generally admitted that we have here the tetragrammaton, the name of the Israelite god, 'Yahweh'; and if this be the case, as it undoubtedly is, the passage constitutes a most precious indication of the whereabouts during the late fifteenth century B.C. of an enclave [the Shasu] revering this god." Egypt, Canaan, and Israel in Ancient Times, pp. 272-273.

(ISRAEL: Redford goes on to state that there is historical evidence confirming the existence of Israel around 1200 BCE.)

A. Eustace Haydon states, "The land of Palestine knew many peoples before the Hebews, and many gods before Yahweh. It was a highway of the ancient world over which passed restless hordes in quest of homelands and marching armies seeking rewards of conquest and the glory of their kings...After 2000 B.C. there are occasional references to the Habiru who were later to become Yahweh's chosen people. They were small groupings of wandering, nomad adventurers associated with the Hurrians and later with the Hyksos. The name of Yahweh had not yet found a place the records of history.
There was no lack of gods in Palestine during the second millennium B.C. Half a hundred names have been rescued from oblivion, and excavation may discover more, but many must be lost to memory forever...El, the shining, sunlit heaven was the greatest of the gods." The Origins of Christianity, "Yahweh", pp. 75-76.

OTHER GODS
Jean Bottero, a respected expert on ancient Mesopotamia, introduces a Sumerian poem on page 209 of his book, Mesopotamia: "Here is a passage from a liturgical poem, composed in Sumerian, at the latest near the end of the third millennium, in honor of the god Enlil, who was then considered to be the ruler of gods and men:

Enlil! his authority is far-reaching
his word is sublime and holy.
His decisions are unalterable
he decides fates forever!
His eyes scrutinize the entire world!
When the honorable Enlil sits down in majesty
on his sacred and sublime throne,
when he exercises with perfection
his power as Lord and King
Spontaneously the other gods prostrate before him
and obey his orders without protest!
He is the great and powerful ruler
who dominates Heaven and Earth
Who knows all and understands all!"

Further, R. O. Faulkner confirms the age of the religious documents known as the Egyptian Pyramid Texts: The [Texts] were carved on the walls of the pyramids of King Wenis of the end of the Fifth Dynasty and of the rulers of the Sixth Dynasty (third milennium BCE), and constitute the oldest corpus of Egyptian religious and funerary literature now extant." The Ancient Egyptian Pyramid Texts, Preface, P. v.

Here is an example from the Texts:

"The sky is clear, Sothis lives, because I am a living one, the son of Sothis, and the Two Enneads have cleansed themselves for me in Ursa Major, the imperisable. My house in the sky will not perish, my throne on earth will not be destroyed for me hide, the gods fly away...
My seat is with you, O Re, and I will not give it to anyone else; I will ascend to the sky to you, O Re, for my face is that of falcons, my wings are those of ducks, my talons are the fangs of Him of the Cerastes-Mountain. There is no word against me on earth among men, there is no accusation in the sky among the gods, for I have annulled the word against me, which I destroyed in order to mount up to the sky." Utterance 302

The oldest extant copies of any of the books of the Old Testament date from around 300 BCE. To my knowledge, most scholars think Genesis was written during the first milennium BCE, although it may contain tradition that dates to the second milennium BCE. In contrast, the Sumerian and Egyptian religious texts were written at least a millenium before any OT book. We have literal texts that date to that time. And they contain religious material that predates their compostion hundreds (if not thousands) of years.

Answerer

I think it is quite clear that Judaism is merely a 'cut and paste' religion of those who preceded it.

FunkyRes

That's an assumption.

The creation and flood stories could have been based upon earlier stories (or the truth) that were not Babylonian, and the Babylonian stories are based upon those same earlier sources.

IE Babylon ripped of A
then a few years later Moses ripped of A

just fyi- assuming that Genesis was recorded while the Hebrew people were allegedly wandering around the desert does not necessitate that the creation and flood stories did not already exist in their culture, coming from whatever culture Abraham had been in.