seebs

Huh? Why?

There's your problem; you're interpreting it as a negative. It's not; it's a practical observation. You're also mortal. Does this mean I'm "bashing" you because you won't live forever? No, I'm just observing it.

Well, your definition is wrong, that's all. If you want to use that definition, go ahead, but it's not what people generally mean by the word, except for "imperfection".

The punishing thing is, so far as I can tell, a result of oversimplification, not an actual thing which happens.

As to the saved thing... Is it "negative" to say that you're mortal? No, just factual. Is it still possible to argue that "immortality" might be desirable to you, and that, without some, you'll die? Sure.

There are lots of things which are not reasons to think you're a "bad person", but which would nontheless be nice if they could be fixed.

I have fairly mild nearsightedness. Is this *offensive*? No. It's just a fact; I don't see so good at long distances. I need glasses to "save" me from this kind of imperfection.

My theology says that God can "save" me from my moral imperfections. Since my moral imperfections are glaringly obvious to me, this seems reasonable enough.

seebs

You might stop here to look up "or".

So, you do no wrong? Ever? Never, once, have you failed to live up to your highest moral standards? If so, there's a *lot* of people that have been waiting for you to come back.

Dude, calm down. The word has a few usages and connotations; they are easily confused.

tdekeyser

tdekeyser

Dude, I am calm. I am trying to make a point, and that is how I express myself with typed words. Get used to it please.....

NO, I never do wrong. That is the absolute truth.

Care to test me?

seebs

I think I'm understanding the gap here. You're seeing this as name-calling, and an attack, and I'm seeing it as a term of art which technically applies to all people.

IMHO, if you think you're perfect, you're wrong; I have never seen anyone who was perfect. I could be incorrect, but it seems to me a safe bet that any given person is imperfect.

seebs

Well, let's start by asking what your moral system is. What do you consider wrong, if anything? Is it wrong to hurt people? Wrong to be mean to them? What, in your eyes, constitutes a moral failing? It may be that we simply disagree on what moral standards to apply to people.

wildernesse

Seeing as "civilized" and "civilization" are practically meaningless terms because they imply that there is a progression towards an ultimate goal of human society, and the fact that every one thinks they are civilized and people who don't share their culture are not makes it difficult to see how calling someone uncivilized is all that offensive. I guess once you've taken plenty of anthro courses, you see how ridiculous that particular concept is and don't tend to use it or assign it any value.

I'm sorry if you find that offensive.

Are you a perfect person who has never made a mistake? It's an observation of general humans, not a judgement of you as an individual.

--tibac

tdekeyser

Good question. And while we are at it lets look at 'perfection' as well.

No, I am not a wrong doer. What is not wrong:

Lying: Child psychologists say this is part of human development and 100% of children learn this automatically at the age of 4. I have seen child psychology shows on Discovery that proove this point. Lying as an adult to outright hurtsomeone is only wrong because you are intentionally hurting another while having the ability to avoid it.

Stealing: Not wrong unless you do not 'need' the item/items. Most animals 'steal for survival, we do to. It is not wrong, it is survival. It is if you stole just to steal though...

Murder: Not wrong if you are defending yourself or a loved one.

Hurting others: Not wrong in a lot of areas. We 'hurt' people to punish them with a penal system.

Any others??


I am not a sinner......very offensive, it implies that I did something WRONG, and I have not.


Perfection. This is like beauty. I feel i am beautiful, and for someone to coma along and say I am not is offensive.

Amie

(emphasis mine)

You asked for our opinions. We are merely sharing what we believe on a question you asked. Surely you must have known what we were going to say to some extent. Sounds like you are just looking for a fight.

tdekeyser

No, no, no. I am not looking for a fight. Gosh....

I am saying that Xians (in church) learn that they are sinners and that everyone is.

It is offensive to me for them to teach things like that. The fact is that THEIST who believe I am a sinner is like me saying that everyone is imperfect. That is offensive!

Everyone IS perfect in my OPINION. Now, all those who I think are perfect are going to get a better feeling from me than a Christian. Christianity is a negative religious racist religion. Just IMO....