jdawg2

ok, so he creates us knowing that we aren't perfect, and never will be perfect, yet looks down on us because we simply act the way we were created to act ("imperfect")? And this being is considered perfectly loving?

That's like me looking down on a woman for not being a good father...lol.

I had this thought after reading someone rationalizing how all "sins" are equally bad in god's eyes...just wanted to throw it out there.

Jamie_L

If God is omniscient, he knows every sin we will commit. If God is omnipotent, he has the ability to make us so we will not sin. If he makes us deliberately, he is responsible for all our sins. If he creates us at random (grab some ingredients, thow 'em in a bowl, shake, chill for a few days...), then he may not be responsible, but neither are we.

This goes hand in hand with my comfortable feelings about potentially disbelieving in a real, all-powerful God: if he's really all powerful, he can make me believe any time he wants. Since I don't, I have to assume he either doesn't want me to, or he doesn't care if I don't.

Jamie

spurly

But the cool part is this. Because he knows we could never be perfect, he provided perfection for us through his son Jesus Christ. When we put our faith in what he did for us on the cross, he clothes us in Christ's perfection/sinlessness/holiness. Now when he looks at us, it is just as if we were perfect. It's awesome, really.

Kevin

spurly

Jamie, the thing is that he doesn't want to make you believe or make you love him. He wants you to choose to do that because you want to - because you want to live in a relationship of love with him. That's why he want brainwash you or force you to live in a relationship with him. Love can't do that. Love has to choose, and that includes the love that chooses or turns away from God.

Kevin

winstonjen

And in the Ultimate Act of Love (TM) (Copyright 6000BC by GOD), he tortures for eternity those who disagree with him.

It's the classic "This is going to hurt me more than it hurts you," which of course is bullshit.

Opera Nut

Same old arguments. You people are soooo uncreative.....


God creates us with free will, but if we don't FREELY choose to love Him, he punishes us by frying us in Hell for all eternity (although we have no body, without nerve endings, I'm not sure how we would suffer).

That's not free will, that's blackmail.

I'm not believing in that Cruel Bastard God and neither are a lot of other folks around here.

We think more of our selves than to swallow that argument. You can't make us feel guilty!!



PS: Read the beliefnet article by Alan Dershowitz (archived as a PDF file) about how the atheist is more moral than the believer, because under cost/benefit analysis, the atheist does good with no expectation of a future reward.

Morals can be figured out independently of a belief in any god or gods.