Freethought & Rationalism Archive

10-03-2002, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GeoTheo:
Starboy, define dishonesty. I have the impression you have a much broader definition than most people. Are you saying everybody knows theres no God so anyone who professes to be a Christian is a liar?

Not my argument but I have a problem with the word "Christian" while coping with the "saved sinner complex." To place this in context what would those be called who have been set free from the law and cannot sin (1Jn.3:9).

HelenM · 10-03-2002, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Starboy:
The benefit I derive is confirmation of my opinion about Christians, and a demonstration of Christian dishonesty to all who lurk here. Thank you for your cooperation.

Oh, it was my pleasure!

take care
Helen

agapeo · 10-03-2002, 08:35 PM

Originally posted by Starboy:

Quote:

You had four choices in responding to my last post:

1: You could have stated your reasons for your acceptance of Christianity in greater detail such as GeoTheo.

Proof that you are more interested in needling Helen than in having a discussion. If GeoTheo answered the questions you posed in greater detail then it is with GeoTheo that you should focus your attention.

Quote:

2: You could have ignored the post altogether.

Oh, that's a good option but perhaps Helen is more polite than you are.

Quote:

3: You could have admitted that you haven't examined the basis of your faith and you don't care to.

Participating on the SecWeb is one hell of a place to hangout if one doesn't want to examine their "faith". With her post count I'd say she must of done quite an extensive examination.

Quote:

4: Or you could duck the issue and deflect criticism back to me.

So you admit that you were criticizing her. How honest of you.

Quote:

I don't think you would be so offended if my comments were not close to the mark, since as you point out, we are Internet strangers. The response you chose reinforces my claim that you are dishonest, if not with me at least with yourself.

Can you tell what the next winning horse will be at the Kentucky Derby, since you're so good at coming to conclusions with very little evidence. I have a few extra bucks I'd like gamble with on your hunches.

Quote:

It is you who have claimed to be a freethinker, not I. You make a claim and offer no justification and yet when you are called on it you lack the honesty to either supply justification, decline to respond, or admit you have none.

Etc., etc., etc., blah, blah, blah.

Quote:

The benefit I derive is confirmation of my opinion about Christians, and a demonstration of Christian dishonesty to all who lurk here. Thank you for your cooperation.

Last time I checked I think you've committed the fallacy of generalization, among a few others.
Gee whiz, just when I was starting to respect you, you go and blow it.

Starboy · 10-04-2002, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by GeoTheo:
Starboy, define dishonesty. I have the impression you have a much broader definition than most people. Are you saying everybody knows theres no God so anyone who professes to be a Christian is a liar?

Not at all. What I mean by being honest is being frank with others and with yourself that your assertion regarding the existence of god is based on faith and not reason. It is neither honest nor dishonest to think there is a god. There may be no evidence to support your thinking but it is not dishonest. One of the things that confuses me so much about Christians is why they think they must justify their faith with reason. It doesn't make any sense to me.

Based on your post I would say you are honest if not just a little confused. HelenM on the other hand to me appears to be dishonest.

Starboy

[ October 04, 2002: Message edited by: Starboy ]

Starboy · 10-04-2002, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by agapeo:
Originally posted by Starboy:

Last time I checked I think you've committed the fallacy of generalization, among a few others.
Gee whiz, just when I was starting to respect you, you go and blow it.

agapeo you are a hoot.

Do you read your own posts?

Is there something in particular you want to discuss or do you just like answering for others?

Starboy

HelenM · 10-04-2002, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Starboy:
 HelenM on the other hand to me appears to be dishonest.

What specific thing did I write that you believe was a lie?

Did I ever promise to answer all your questions?

take care
Helen

agapeo · 10-04-2002, 08:23 AM

Quote:

agapeo you are a hoot.

Do you read your own posts?

Most of the time. And your point is?

Quote:

Is there something in particular you want to discuss or do you just like answering for others?

As one who usually "lurks" on this Board I thought I'd speak up for them. And as a Christian I find your generalizations of Christians full of bull. You assert that Helen is dishonest and yet you haven't proven it. Should we "lurkers" take your word for it? Our "faith" is already booked.

Edited after posting and re-reading it.

[ October 04, 2002: Message edited by: agapeo ]

Starboy · 10-04-2002, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by HelenM:


What specific thing did I write that you believe was a lie?

Did I ever promise to answer all your questions?

take care
Helen

HelenM,

Main Entry: dis�hon�est
Pronunciation: (")di-'s�-n&st also -'z�-
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French deshoneste, from des- dis- + honeste honest
Date: 14th century
1 obsolete : SHAMEFUL, UNCHASTE
2 : characterized by lack of truth, honesty, or trustworthiness : UNFAIR, DECEPTIVE
- dis�hon�est�ly adverb
synonyms DISHONEST, DECEITFUL, MENDACIOUS, UNTRUTHFUL mean unworthy of trust or belief. DISHONEST implies a willful perversion of truth in order to deceive, cheat, or defraud <a swindle usually involves two dishonest people>. DECEITFUL usually implies an intent to mislead and commonly suggests a false appearance or double-dealing <the secret affairs of a deceitful spouse>. MENDACIOUS may suggest bland or even harmlessly mischievous deceit and when used of people often suggests a habit of telling untruths <mendacious tales of adventure>. UNTRUTHFUL stresses a discrepancy between what is said and fact or reality <an untruthful account of their actions>.

Can you be forthright? Is your intent to engage in discussion?

HelenM if you are not being dishonest then what are you trying to do?

Starboy

HelenM · 10-04-2002, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Starboy:
Can you be forthright?

I think so

Quote:

Is your intent to engage in discussion?

Sometimes, with some people.

If there seems to be some point in it. If I have time. If I want to.

Quote:

HelenM if you are not being dishonest then what are you trying to do?

If I'm not being dishonest then what am I trying to do?

Don't you want to know what I'm trying to do if I am being dishonest?

I don't exactly have a plan, actually.

I'm waiting to see what you write next (if anything), in part.

take care
Helen

[ October 04, 2002: Message edited by: HelenM ]

Starboy · 10-04-2002, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by HelenM:


If I'm not being dishonest then what am I trying to do?

Don't you want to know what I'm trying to do if I am being dishonest?

I don't exactly have a plan, actually.

I'm waiting to see what you write next (if anything), in part.

take care
Helen

[ October 04, 2002: Message edited by: HelenM ]

So be it.

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