Freethought & Rationalism Archive

BioBeing · 05-12-2003, 11:37 AM

On another forum a discussion has led to religion is not the only source of moral principle (OK � so I led it that way

) Anyway, I started to post about Aesop�s Fables Aesop's Fables as being a secular way of addressing the same issues. Specifically I asked who needs David in the lion's den when you can have Androcles:

Quote:

A slave named Androcles once escaped from his master and fled to the forest. As he was wandering about there he came upon a Lion lying down moaning and groaning. At first he turned to flee, but finding that the Lion did not pursue him, he turned back and went up to him. As he came near, the Lion put out his paw, which was all swollen and bleeding, and Androcles found that a huge thorn had got into it, and was causing all the pain. He pulled out the thorn and bound up the paw of the Lion, who was soon able to rise and lick the hand of Androcles like a dog. Then the Lion took Androcles to his cave, and every day used to bring him meat from which to live. But shortly afterwards both Androcles and the Lion were captured, and the slave was sentenced to be thrown to the Lion, after the latter had been kept without food for several days. The Emperor and all his Court came to see the spectacle, and Androcles was led out into the middle of the arena. Soon the Lion was let loose from his den, and rushed bounding and roaring towards his victim. But as soon as he came near to Androcles he recognised his friend, and fawned upon him, and licked his hands like a friendly dog. The Emperor, surprised at this, summoned Androcles to him, who told him the whole story. Whereupon the slave was pardoned and freed, and the Lion let loose to his native forest.

This made me then question when Aesop lived: but it was obviously sometime long before Jesus is supposed to have:

Quote:

The fables were in the first instance only narrated by Aesop, and for a long time were handed down by the uncertain channel of oral tradition. Socrates is mentioned by Plato 8 as having employed his time while in prison, awaiting the return of the sacred ship from Delphos which was to be the signal of his death, in turning some of these fables into verse, but he thus versified only such as he remembered. Demetrius Phalereus, a philosopher at Athens about 300 B.C., is said to have made the first collection of these fables.

Which then made me question which came first, Androcles or David? Who needs the bible for moral guidance when you can have Aesop?

<BioBeing is going to stop at the bookstore tonight to buy a book of Aesop�s Fables for his son. I remember loving them when I was young.>

echidna · 05-12-2003, 03:01 PM

Aesop's Fables are brilliant !!! My (very religious) Dad used to read them to us as children. I've also been trying to hunt down a good copy to give to the six year old for bedtime reading.

Felstorm · 05-14-2003, 02:53 AM

Aesops Fables are great. I enjoyed reading them as a child.

I also like Zen. Zen is Buddhist in origin but the lessons are areligious in nature.

abe smith · 05-16-2003, 06:14 AM

... It was the OT prophet *DANIEL* (allegedly) in the lion's den, not OT *David*.
Apart from that (whether any of the Biblical story is "true" or not),
Aesop's Fables (whoever did write them; he probably was a Greek-speaker, legendly a slave; altho many of the same fables may/do exist in other language-cultures).... Aesop's Fables are very often the *first* exercises learners of a foreign language grapple with; and very-rightly so! They are terse, humanly-interesting, with basic vocabularies and verb-forms; and, like the parables of Jesus, rhetorically very simple straightforrard prose. ALL parents ought to do AEsop to their youngsters. !! And besides, the matters of the fables are built into the "human (linguistic) heritage".
AEsop certainly predates Jesus (if the NT gospels are true = historical, or not) because Jesus alludes to at least one of those
= the wolf in sheep's clothing. viz.... "but within, they are ravening wolves".
I wonder if the 100 monkeys at the 100 typewriters may sooner produce AEsop, than Shakespeare?

05-16-2003, 06:14 AM	#4
abe smith Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: springfield, MA. USA Posts: 2,482	UH... Biobeing? ... It was the OT prophet DANIEL (allegedly) in the lion's den, not OT David. Apart from that (whether any of the Biblical story is "true" or not), Aesop's Fables (whoever did write them; he probably was a Greek-speaker, legendly a slave; altho many of the same fables may/do exist in other language-cultures).... Aesop's Fables are very often the first exercises learners of a foreign language grapple with; and very-rightly so! They are terse, humanly-interesting, with basic vocabularies and verb-forms; and, like the parables of Jesus, rhetorically very simple straightforrard prose. ALL parents ought to do AEsop to their youngsters. !! And besides, the matters of the fables are built into the "human (linguistic) heritage". AEsop certainly predates Jesus (if the NT gospels are true = historical, or not) because Jesus alludes to at least one of those = the wolf in sheep's clothing. viz.... "but within, they are ravening wolves". I wonder if the 100 monkeys at the 100 typewriters may sooner produce AEsop, than Shakespeare?

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05-12-2003, 03:01 PM	#2
echidna Veteran Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 2,832	Aesop's Fables are brilliant !!! My (very religious) Dad used to read them to us as children. I've also been trying to hunt down a good copy to give to the six year old for bedtime reading.

05-14-2003, 02:53 AM	#3
Felstorm Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Minnesota Posts: 49	Aesops Fables are great. I enjoyed reading them as a child. I also like Zen. Zen is Buddhist in origin but the lessons are areligious in nature.

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