Volker.Doormann

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jesse

Jesse: "That's the only question I'm asking."

[...]

... OK, thanks, this basically answers my question.

Fine.

EOD

Volker

Jesse

Well, in the course of the discussion other questions and issues came up, like the one about whether belief in astrology is falsifiable. But if you'd prefer not to address them that's fine.

Secular Pinoy

So, I guess Volker decided to quit defending astrology? That's sad, as Jesse had posted several fatal objections which went unchallenged. Well, thank you both for such an enlightening discussion.

echidna

Volker, I don't understand how you can fall for this childishly simple fallacy. The fallacy lies in the wording of the pretext "while birth, will make a carrier, but will crash sometime". Like all astrology, this is so vague, it can quite easily refer to every political figure throughout history. So how amazing when some people actually fall into this category !!! Well, even more amazing is every other political figure who does NOT fall into this category. Figures who have every bit as much ... "while birth, will make a carrier, but will crash sometime".

This fallacy of selective data selection is generally something the average 10 year old understands.

With such a grand understanding of political figures, maybe you'd care to make some astute (and specific) political predictions for the immediate future ? Say United States, something not yet published of course. I await your groud-shattering revelations.

With astrology so so so infallible, why is it not called on to make crucial predictions ? Where are the astrologers at political elections ? At the Iraq War briefings ?

Answer : they're not there because their predications are laughably inaccurate. Instead astrologers occupy the back pages of the tabloids, where bored stay-at-homes can expend their endless hours and excess brain capacity in lieu of anything useful.

Because astrology is only descriptive, NOT predictive !!!

Volker.Doormann

If you have followed this thread and checked, then you can recognize, that that, what I have presented on astrological interpretations was right. I do name here the terms 'missed father', 'cut relationships' 'Tourettte's syndrom' , all provable data to measure significance.

This is that, what you don't understand. Nothing else. That's me.

This is a scientific forum. Please argue with scientific arguments. Prove my interpretations wrong by statistical scientific proofs, not by a grade of amazing. Amazing is not a valid scientific value.

Your arguments here are words: "childishly simple fallacy amazing, vague" . With this words and unproved assertions you do argue in a scientific forum to show the world, that your arguments should have some scientific relevance to prove my argument's wrong. It's nothing. Absolutely nothing.

If you comes up with such trash in a scientific disputation of your dissertation, I don't know, what you get as reply.

Secular Pinoy, Thank you, I'm off.

EOD.

Volker

echidna

To the contrary Volker, I asked a standard scientific question, for evidence of your claims, but for a change, not descriptive evidence for events already passed, but for political events yet to come. You provided a list of passed (mainly political) figures, claiming to have astrological intuition as to their lives.

So presumably you can also perform this feat for current figures & be able to predict with a good degree of accuracy, their futures.

A scientific request for evidence of prediction, not passed, but future (as the term "predict" implies). Surely this isn't an unreasonable request ?

I await your list of predictions ... ?

Volker.Doormann

Hi Secular Pinoy,

I have found this link on your page
http://www.astrosociety.org/educatio...html#materials asking: "Ten Embarrassing Questions of Astronomers". I have finished the discussioin in this thread, and I will not start again to discuss. In the end I have answered this question best as I can.

Ten Embarrassing Questions

1.What is the likelihood that one-twelfth of the world's population is having the same kind of day?

This likelihood is taken only the suns position in account and rejects the positions of other planets and other astrological symbols of an unlimited number of symbols, because no chart can be equal to an other chart, because there is no constelleation in time ond location eaqual to an other. This is not serious astrology. No one of any reason would say, that there are only two expanation neccessary to describe all mans and womans correctly.

2. Why is the moment of birth, rather than conception, crucial for astrology?

Evidence. It is evident, that the well known astrological symbols describing the character of the born human, matching to the time of birth to the minute of first own breathing of the baby only. There is only a minor matching on other times next to this minute. Two houres before or two ours after the first breath there is no matching at all.

3. If the mother's womb can keep out astrological influences until birth, can we do the same with a cubicle of steak?

It is the growth of the neuronal connections after the first breath in brain of the newborn, which growth as a structure given with the first own breath, as a crystal only can grow from a unit cell. In a cubicle of steak there is no process of growing structures, as it is in a brain of o newborn.

4. If astrologers are as good as they claim, why aren't they richer?

This question do claim, that to be rich is a function of quality in a profession. But is not. It is a fate and the second house shows whether a person get rich or not.

5. Are all horoscopes done before the discovery of the three outermost planets incorrect?

No. The knowledge to cure some cold feet with a warm bottle of water, is also not affected by the discovering of the helio bactus.

6. Shouldn't we condemn astrology as a form of bigotry?

No. The assertion, that each human is born with the same social initial conditions is not true. Astrology does not judge humans; astrology can recognize and do acknowledge the truth of the different initial conditions of humans.

7. Why do different schools of astrology disagree so strongly with each other?

Because they have different areas of knowledge. Some are more related to the emotional or social area, and others are more involved in spiritual knowledge about the sense of this life.

8. If the astrological influence is carried by a known force, why do the planets dominate?

The astrological influence is not known. There is only evidence on the planetary aspects in relation to the human character.

9. If astrological influence is carried by an unknown force, why is it independent of distance? All the long-range forces we know in the universe get weaker as objects get farther apart.

If you do not know from a force, it is senseless to ask for its independence of distance. That all physical long-range forces are geting weaker as objects get farther apart is not true in every case. Each mass is a gravitational lense, that can focos EM waves and gravitaional waves with an effect, that can increase with distance.

10. If astrological influences don't depend on distance, why is there no astrology of stars, galaxies, and quasars?

There is an astrology of stars.

bye

Volker

echidna

It would be a shame to abandon such an opportunity to exhibit one's software in such a simple demonstration. Presumably astrological software has some predictive capability & is not solely descriptive of already-established facts.

Volker, please provide some specific predictions for a few well-known US figures. Surely it wouldn't be too hard to come up with some which are fairly surprising (ie, not just the Bush will win / lose the next election type, those are not really going to impress anyone given the odds are fairly even).

I mean with such a powerful tool at one's disposal, there should be hundreds of astrologers leading the predictions as to the future of political events. Could you please find some links to some reliably accurate political astrologers. I was unsuccessful in my search.

hyzer

Volker

Follow up questions to “2. Why is the moment of birth, rather than conception, crucial for astrology?”


2A. Can you prepare charts for someone who does not know their exact time of birth? Can you, by extensive research into the life of such a person, use your powers of astrology to retroactively determine the time of birth for such a person? If not, why not?

2B. How does astrology account for time zones with regards to time of birth? I would think that solar time should be used if the exact time is so important. Do astrologers convert all time of birth’s to solar time?

Volker.Doormann

It is possible in general. If there are enough indicators back from the person also on its mentality in true speaking it does helps. Some times it is easy, if the planets are distributed only on mostly 190° or so of the ecliptic. This has very different results on the mentality.
Astrologers have data of each city on the world about its coordinates, it time zones and its daylight saving times. Without this data no correct chart calulation can be made.

Volker