HelenM

Fwiw, I don't think someone can be admitted to the hospital without their permission unless the doctors agree that it's an emergency situation. Admittedly I don't know a whole lot about it, though.

Still though, taking her to the ER would be an option, although taking her to a psychiatrist would be a kinder approach.

Darren, why not tell her Dad about last night and see what he says? Maybe the two of you could persuade her that she ought to go see a doctor...and maybe if she says 'no' you need to take her anyway and explain the symptoms to the doctor, and see what his professional opinion is. That's often what it comes to, when a spouse does have a mental illness, unfortunately.

Helen

Proxima Centauri

Sorry, I have not had time to read through the long thread which developed since yesterday. She may be acting irrationally. She may be trying to push you into leaving her so you appear in the wrong. Earlier I suggested to Brettc that he could get a pocket tape recorder with microphone so he can prove how his wife is behaving. I suggest the same to you. The Courts certainly need to know that she is not fit to be in sole charge of the children.

seebs

Well, not a *competent* one.

But I've had things important to me wrecked by angry SO's.

If I think it's really a question of stress, I may be willing to overlook it a few times.

Vicar Philip

Helen, I told her last night that she needed help. She got very angry. There is no way she will go to get help by force. It won't happen.

We sort of made up last night, but I don't know what's going to happen. I got up about 9:30 and she's still asleep. I have a headache, and a heartache. The guitar thing probably doesn't seem like much, I think it's more than that. She claims I love it more than her, which is ridiculous. I told her that wasn't true.

I'm so very tired of all this bullshit. The childish tactics. The histrionics. And yes, agapeo, I have said some things that probably weren't the most mature, but only about Christianity, not her personally. I haven't threatened her with divorce unless she believes how I say, nor have I told her she is an embarrassment. I also haven't threatened to take away contact with my own kids.

Bleah. I don't know what I want to do.

Proxima Centauri

I have read the thread now.
HelenM, if Darren goes to church it won't be the end of the trouble. Within a short time she'll demand more concessions.
Before now I have been advising Darren to try to be nice even if she's nasty. Just I said, Darren should be a bit cold during quarrels and directly afterwards. Up to Christmas that seemed to be working.
Darren, if you go to church this Sunday consider showing the other Christians the photo of the guitar. That should get you out of church for the future. You certainly need to do something, like sleeping in the spare bedroom and being a bit alloof this weekend. If she complains about your alloofness ask her what she would do if you broke one of her treasured possessions.
She must understand that this has gone much to far.

HelenM

Did you mean there's no way, except by force? When you're forced you don't have a choice. And I hope that would be a last resort but it does sometimes come to that

Somehow I think you have to bring some more people into this. Regardless of who is 'mostly' to blame, or all to blame, it seems to me that as a couple and as a family you need outside help. I think it's unwise to try to work things out between the two of you given the way they have been for these past few months. It hasn't been working. If the pastor can get you to that point of having the outside help you need then that's great; but with or without him I do strongly recommend it.

take care
Helen

Proxima Centauri

It looks a bit as if she does these things because she can get away with it. She broke your guitar which you value. Then you rewarded her by making up. Now she tries to get a bigger reward by telling you you love the guitar more than her.
She could be preparing for a situation where she can break anything you value and say you love it more than her.
You must do enough to stop her being rewarded.

wildernesse

Darren,

There isn't an excuse for a person to break your possessions. There isn't an excuse for someone to act in that way--I have problems managing my anger, always have--hopefully not always will. There is no excuse for my tantrums--it's an example of my immaturity and inability to control myself. These are not characteristics that I want to manifest and I'm working very hard on this.

Even when I'm acting like an idiot, I would NEVER hurt Leonora (Rufus's computer and most prized possession) unless I really wanted a divorce. Not because he cares more about the computer than me--but because it would show such disrespect for him as a person. It would mean that I meant to hurt him terribly and didn't care.

Could we still stay married after that? It would be very very difficult.

Don't reward your wife for her temper tantrum. She needs to learn how to interact with people without throwing a tantrum to get her way. As someone who throws tantrums, I will admit that I do that because I want to control the situation and I can't. She wants to control you, and if you give in to her, you are letting her.

Recognize that this is how she wants to control you--love is not about controlling the other person, it's about accepting the person for who they are not who you want them to be. Please see a therapist to help you with this--learn to say "No". That's what my husband does--he says "no, I'm not going to do what you want me to do. If there are consequences, I will deal with them. You are not responsible for me and my actions and you aren't going to control my decisions." He never gives in--which is good, because I'm acting like an idiot. He also never reacts much, just says the above and continues doing whatever he's doing (sleeping, typing, cooking).

Notice she calmed down when she got her way--you're going to church now, no matter what. Next time something comes up, expect the same thing all over again til you give in.

Please go to a therapist/counselor--and if you go to the pastor, tell him about your wife's behavior. It's unhealthy--and I bet it will embarrass her to death for anyone to know that she acts that way. If it embarrasses her, then maybe she will think about why she acts in a way that she doesn't want anyone to know about. If she doesn't care, then you really do have issues.

I'm very sorry that your wife is acting this way. I'm even more upset that I can recognize similar behavior in my own life. Fortunately, I can also recognize that it's atrocious behavior and work on it.

--tibac

P.S. Also consider taking your children to a therapist to learn anger management and coping strategies. Watching their mother act like this has a big impact on them--my mother and I are twins in temperment as much as I hate to admit that sometimes.

Godless Dave

Darren I've been staying out of this thread because what you're going through is completely out of my experience so I don't have anything constructive to say. I'm jumping in now because I'm a musician too. If anyone in my life tried to destroy one of my guitars that would be it. Damaging personal possessions is definitely not healthy behavior. Something is wrong with your wife, and if she's not willing to acknowledge it then there's not much you can do. I hate to counsel anyone to get a divorce but your wife is mentally ill and potentially violent. Imagine what she could do to your kids' possessions if one of them has a disagreement with her. She thinks this is about religion but it's really about her behavior. I strongly suggest you talk to a lawyer not just about protecting yourself in a divorce but about how to make sure you will get custody of the children.

pescifish

Well said, GD.

Your wife's behavior escalated past the verbal/mental abuse long ago. Her behavior seems to me to be well beyond simple childish into dangerous. And it continues to escalate. Physical violence upon objects is not a far step from physical violence against a person. As GD says, this isn't about religion, this is about her delusional and irrational behavior. You need help, professional help. No amount of concessions on your part will solve this or bring peace back into your lives until she gets some help.

Hopefully this is temporary, stress related behavior brought on by the 80 hr work weeks and financial worries.