Freethought & Rationalism Archive

DBT · 08-03-2003, 04:04 AM

Back in the early eighties I read a fair bit of Krishnamurti's work,
he had an interesting story,raised by the theosophical society to be the new messiah,which he rejected.
His later work seemed to have some good insights into human nature.
have any of you read his books, and what do you think?

Ronin · 08-03-2003, 04:38 AM

I was drawn to the TS by the history and life of Annie Besant when I was in High School in the 80's and was a card carrying member of the Theosophical Society...many of their book publication catalogues grace my porcelain water bowl contemplation chamber even now.

Honestly...I still rather enjoy the reading of the actual lives of Besant, Leadbetter, Blavatsky and Alcyone...rather than their particular claims to mystical wisdom.

I really have to give big ups to Krishnamurti when he pooped on the whole 'World Teacher' (messiah paradigm), after some Besant myth-making, when he outed himself during a speech to his followers ~

"Your prejudices, your fears, your authorities, your churches new and old--all these, I maintain, are a barrier to understanding....

So you will see how absurd is the whole structure that you have built, looking for external help, depending on others for your comfort, for your happiness, for your strength. These can only be found within yourselves....

You can form other organizations and expect someone else. With that I am not concerned, nor with creating new cages new decorations for those cages. My only concern is to set men absolutely, unconditionally free."

...and don't even get me started on Blavatsky's "Masters''...hang on a minute, got to get the phone......................

Volker.Doormann · 08-03-2003, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DBT9522
Back in the early eighties I read a fair bit of Krishnamurti's work,
he had an interesting story,raised by the theosophical society to be the new messiah,which he rejected.
His later work seemed to have some good insights into human nature.
have any of you read his books, and what do you think?

I saw him first in September in 1956 in Hamburg. I have learned from him to understand me and the structures of the mind for my astrological work.

A good impression of his thoughts is sampled in a little book by Mary Lutyens titled as 'Freedom from the Known'.

He did philosophical live dialogs with the physician Dr. David Bohm, which were published as 'The Ending of Time'.

I have designed some pages relating to his thoughts on my site doormann.org and one is about some cites of him doormann.tripod.com/jkcite.htm like this one:

"When you call yourself an Indian or a Muslim or a Christian or a European, or anything else, you are being violent. Do you see why it is violent? Because you are separating yourself from the rest of mankind. When you separate yourself by belief, by nationality, by tradition, it breeds violence. So a man who is seeking to understand violence does not belong to any country, to any religion, to any political party or partial system; he is concerned with the total understanding of mankind.
(Jiddu Krishnamurti) "

Jiddu Krishnamurti has written a script, known as Alcyone: 'At The Feet Of The Master', in the year 1910, as he was 14 years old doormann.org/alcyone1.htm.

"All authority of any kind, especially in the field of thought and understanding, is the most destructive, evil thing. Leaders destroy the followers and followers destroy the leaders. You have to be your own teacher and your own disciple. You have to question everything that man has accepted as valuable, as necessary. "
(J. Krishnamurti, Freedom from the Known, p. 21)

If you are tired to be a slave of your mind, listen to your self, while listen the words spoken.

Best teaching I know.

Volker

emotional · 08-03-2003, 07:54 AM

Quote:

"When you call yourself an Indian or a Muslim or a Christian or a European, or anything else, you are being violent. Do you see why it is violent? Because you are separating yourself from the rest of mankind. When you separate yourself by belief, by nationality, by tradition, it breeds violence. So a man who is seeking to understand violence does not belong to any country, to any religion, to any political party or partial system; he is concerned with the total understanding of mankind.
(Jiddu Krishnamurti) "

All is one. There are no distinctions. There are no absolutes (except for this one). God and the universe are the same. It's immoral to have convictions, only opinions are right.

Stand back while I vomit from this PC nonsense.

Quote:

"All authority of any kind, especially in the field of thought and understanding, is the most destructive, evil thing. Leaders destroy the followers and followers destroy the leaders. You have to be your own teacher and your own disciple. You have to question everything that man has accepted as valuable, as necessary. "
(J. Krishnamurti, Freedom from the Known, p. 21)

Who is he to tell me to question all authority?

Volker.Doormann · 08-03-2003, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by emotional
Who is he to tell me to question all authority?

" "What is relevant are the teachings. Who the teacher is, is not relevant." " K

08-03-2003, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Volker.Doormann
I[i]"When you call yourself an Indian or a Muslim or a Christian or a European, or anything else, you are being violent. Do you see why it is violent?

My suitcase was raided once by a bunch of Christians and I was called to answer why I had "The Years of Fulfilment" (Mary Lutyens) in it. They suspected I was reading some wierd stuff and that is why they did what they did. Funny thing was that I found it boring and never did read it.

I would disagree with him because it is impossible to purify flesh. In my view we must welcome violence before understanding can be found because the warmest, sweetest sunshine comes after storm and gloom.

Volker.Doormann · 08-03-2003, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Amos
I would disagree with him because it is impossible to purify flesh. In my view we must welcome violence before understanding can be found because the warmest, sweetest sunshine comes after storm and gloom.

If you teach, that people first must welcome violence before understanding, then you will be the first victim of violence before you can perceive warmest sweetest sunshine in this life. The law of causality is not corrupt. Caution with your wishes, maybe they come true.

Volker

08-03-2003, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Volker.Doormann
If you teach, that people first must welcome violence before understanding, then you will be the first victim of violence before you can perceive warmest sweetest sunshine in this life. The law of causality is not corrupt. Caution with your wishes, maybe they come true.

Volker

There you go, the Catholic Church has many such victims and therefore bursts with the sweetest warmest sunshine of life.

Volker.Doormann · 08-03-2003, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Amos
There you go, the Catholic Church has many such victims and therefore bursts with the sweetest warmest sunshine of life.

The Catholic Church is a phantom. There are only individual souls. These souls are able to perceive effects of causality (Karma) and able to cause (karmic) effects.
I think it is cynic, to state such claims.

I know a priest as old as me - teaching catholic theology in a school for children for long 40 years - , and he has left his church - as an individual - , maybe he has recognized, that this hierarchy is based on violence in respect to the truth - I don't know.

This world is a dark place, were people searching for light. It is a caused crime to dim the light more by teaching darkness is more light then sunshine.

It do not counts the short fleshly fun catholic Christian man's have with woman's clothes in this fleshly world. It do count's the amount of causes put in actions, because only this caused actions results in effects.

No one knows what he have caused prior to his birth. It is only seen the effect. But causality is. No being is created out of nothing. Each one has his fate from his caused actions. If this effects are not recognized as causal effects, then one is going on trying to enhance the disorder of nature by the teaching of Amos generating violence, expecting sunshine.

It is not the disorder, which leads to truth, it is the order.

Volker

Doctor X · 08-03-2003, 03:10 PM

Sorry to micturate on everyone's cheerios, but I believe Martin Gardner wrote a particularly severe criticism of Krishnamurti in the Skeptical Inquirer--I will have to find it--wait, funny what the "search" function can do on their website:

I cannot link the article, but it is from: Volume 24, Number 4, July/August--"Notes of a Fringe-Watcher: David Bohm and Jiddo Krishnamurti," Martin Gardner

There is also a book, Madam Blavatsky's Baboon.

Anyways, if the more "pro" side is aware of these criticisms, I would welcome a response.

--J.D.

08-03-2003, 04:04 AM	#1
DBT Contributor Join Date: May 2003 Location: ɹǝpunuʍop puɐן ǝɥʇ Posts: 17,906	J.Krishnamurti Back in the early eighties I read a fair bit of Krishnamurti's work, he had an interesting story,raised by the theosophical society to be the new messiah,which he rejected. His later work seemed to have some good insights into human nature. have any of you read his books, and what do you think?

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08-03-2003, 04:38 AM	#2
Ronin Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Mississippi Posts: 5,047	I was drawn to the TS by the history and life of Annie Besant when I was in High School in the 80's and was a card carrying member of the Theosophical Society...many of their book publication catalogues grace my porcelain water bowl contemplation chamber even now. Honestly...I still rather enjoy the reading of the actual lives of Besant, Leadbetter, Blavatsky and Alcyone...rather than their particular claims to mystical wisdom. I really have to give big ups to Krishnamurti when he pooped on the whole 'World Teacher' (messiah paradigm), after some Besant myth-making, when he outed himself during a speech to his followers ~ "Your prejudices, your fears, your authorities, your churches new and old--all these, I maintain, are a barrier to understanding.... So you will see how absurd is the whole structure that you have built, looking for external help, depending on others for your comfort, for your happiness, for your strength. These can only be found within yourselves.... You can form other organizations and expect someone else. With that I am not concerned, nor with creating new cages new decorations for those cages. My only concern is to set men absolutely, unconditionally free." ...and don't even get me started on Blavatsky's "Masters''...hang on a minute, got to get the phone......................

08-03-2003, 03:10 PM	#10
Doctor X Banned Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: USA Posts: 3,794	Sorry to micturate on everyone's cheerios, but I believe Martin Gardner wrote a particularly severe criticism of Krishnamurti in the Skeptical Inquirer--I will have to find it--wait, funny what the "search" function can do on their website: I cannot link the article, but it is from: Volume 24, Number 4, July/August--"Notes of a Fringe-Watcher: David Bohm and Jiddo Krishnamurti," Martin Gardner There is also a book, Madam Blavatsky's Baboon. Anyways, if the more "pro" side is aware of these criticisms, I would welcome a response. --J.D.

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