Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Refused · 02-04-2003, 03:33 PM

Ok, will do. Holy shit, did you see how many .nets were attached to that site?? The Ark site was really neat. Neat or crazy.. whichever you prefer.

I always love checking out fundie sites and TV shows.. My wife comes walking through the door and says, " Why are you watching this stuff?"

Gotta know your enemy.

- Refused

Puck · 02-04-2003, 05:13 PM

I'm having the worse time staying focused on this guys email in my reply. It's such BS it's hard to respond to, but here's what I've written so far, subject to much change, I suspect.

Quote:

Secular Humanism is not a religion; some Humanists believe in a God, some are Atheistic. Many Americans are Humanists and don't even know it. They are not baby eating pedophilies. Secularism is not a solid, cohesive church with intent to impose it's beliefs on the Nation as a whole. Attempting to tie Humanists with the worst of humanity is deceitful at best. Adolf Hitler, in a speech delivered April 12, 1922, and published in 'My New Order': "My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter."

Mr. Morton, I don't know where you got your information from, but you were deceived. The horrors you attribute to Secular Humanism I see over and over in the news every day, committed by members of the various Christian Clergy. Never have I read of any avowed Secular Humanist being arrested for harming another human being. Nay, the very term Secular Humanist taken apart may point you to the truth - Secular meaning without any particular religion, and Humanist meaning concerned with humans.

Any critiques? Suggestions to head me in the right direction?

Bumble Bee Tuna · 02-04-2003, 05:27 PM

don't be as stupid as he is and act like Christianity makes people evil. I think the ebst response is to define religion and secular humanism. Then say some points from the secular humanist creed if there is such a thing to demonstrate that he's entirely wrong. Be clear and don't come off as angry. Just correct him.

-B

never been there · 02-04-2003, 05:59 PM

Secular Humanism was started by conservative Christians in 17th-century Holland who agreed that if they could not agree on matters of doctrine, it was still God's commandment that they not kill one another over it. Europe was going through the 30 Years' War, a partly religious conflict among Christians and the most destructve war yet seen in that part of the world. This philosophy was organized in The Ethics by Spinoza, a Jewish refugee who had found shelter among them.

"Secular Humanism" means that religious law applies only within each church, but that in matters outside the church (criminal law, trade, city planning, torts) humanism is sufficiently in accordance with each faith that it is an acceptable basis for the laws governing society.

Puck · 02-05-2003, 04:33 AM

Thank you, never been there. My problem is that, at least on one site I checked out, Secular Humanism does support some of the things pointed out in the article. Although I too support PAS, gay rights, etc., it doesn't make for a good argument to a predominatly fundy society, which is what many readers of the local paper are.

I haven't run into much of the supposed planned tactics to infiltrate the public schools, so denying that is difficult. I'm now in contact with Mr. Colson, the writer of the original article. He is a very distant cousin, and I suspect he will take over responding if I don't. I will share anything I have come up with him. I may still respond, but at least now I feel like it doesn't need to be done yesterday!

Y'all have given me good tools to work with. I was at such a loss, still am, but at least now have a little bit to go on. More thoughts apprieciated!

Writer@Large · 02-05-2003, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Puck
My problem is that, at least on one site I checked out, Secular Humanism does support some of the things pointed out in the article.

Yes, and half the problem with the original article is that it views those things as bad, and lumps them in with things like pedophilia. That's one of the tricky parts of any debate. That's why I love election years. I'll see a commercial that ominously proclaims, "My opponent supports labor unions and homosexual marriages ... she's LIBERAL!" and I'll think "Yeah? So? That's why I'm voting for her!"

Quote:

I haven't run into much of the supposed planned tactics to infiltrate the public schools, so denying that is difficult.

That's because there is no tactic. Why would it be difficult to deny? Just demand proof.

Good luck!

--W@L

Jack the Bodiless · 02-05-2003, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Secualr humanism has been the religion of the former Soviet Union, Red China, Cuba and Nazi Germany...

...Secualr Humanism began to make sigificant in-roads in our country in the 1930's through the "progressive movement" led by educator John Dewey, a co-arthor of the Humanist Manifesto.

In response to THAT, it's worth pointing out that the values of secular humanism are those of the United States of America, from its inception until the 1950's, when Christian fundamentalists began to make significant inroads, led by senator McCarthy. Even today, there are ongoing attempts by Christian fundamentalists to rewrite history and betray the legacy of the Founding Fathers.

Puck · 02-05-2003, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jack the Bodiless
In response to THAT, it's worth pointing out that the values of secular humanism are those of the United States of America, from its inception until the 1950's, when Christian fundamentalists began to make significant inroads, led by senator McCarthy. Even today, there are ongoing attempts by Christian fundamentalists to rewrite history and betray the legacy of the Founding Fathers.

Ah, hey Jack? can I steal what you just wrote? Word for word?

I had a message from Mr. Colson when I got back home, he is planning to respond to this nasty article. He wants to make sure that it is well reasoned, so he isn't going to rush. Wise man. I've also sent a copy to Paul Krutz of the Council for Secular Humanism, and he's sending it on to a gentleman here in GA.

Hah. I didn't have to take on this onus all by myself after all, I've managed to rally better heads to deal with it, who are better equiped to respond with knowledge and reason.

Gosh, I love y'all.

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02-04-2003, 03:33 PM	#11
Refused Regular Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: South Carolina Posts: 490	Ok, will do. Holy shit, did you see how many .nets were attached to that site?? The Ark site was really neat. Neat or crazy.. whichever you prefer. I always love checking out fundie sites and TV shows.. My wife comes walking through the door and says, " Why are you watching this stuff?" Gotta know your enemy. - Refused

02-04-2003, 05:27 PM	#13
Bumble Bee Tuna Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Middletown, CT Posts: 7,333	don't be as stupid as he is and act like Christianity makes people evil. I think the ebst response is to define religion and secular humanism. Then say some points from the secular humanist creed if there is such a thing to demonstrate that he's entirely wrong. Be clear and don't come off as angry. Just correct him. -B

02-04-2003, 05:59 PM	#14
never been there Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Winnipeg, MB Posts: 2,144	Secular Humanism was started by conservative Christians in 17th-century Holland who agreed that if they could not agree on matters of doctrine, it was still God's commandment that they not kill one another over it. Europe was going through the 30 Years' War, a partly religious conflict among Christians and the most destructve war yet seen in that part of the world. This philosophy was organized in The Ethics by Spinoza, a Jewish refugee who had found shelter among them. "Secular Humanism" means that religious law applies only within each church, but that in matters outside the church (criminal law, trade, city planning, torts) humanism is sufficiently in accordance with each faith that it is an acceptable basis for the laws governing society.

02-05-2003, 04:33 AM	#15
Puck Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: A middle aged body. Posts: 3,459	Thank you, never been there. My problem is that, at least on one site I checked out, Secular Humanism does support some of the things pointed out in the article. Although I too support PAS, gay rights, etc., it doesn't make for a good argument to a predominatly fundy society, which is what many readers of the local paper are. I haven't run into much of the supposed planned tactics to infiltrate the public schools, so denying that is difficult. I'm now in contact with Mr. Colson, the writer of the original article. He is a very distant cousin, and I suspect he will take over responding if I don't. I will share anything I have come up with him. I may still respond, but at least now I feel like it doesn't need to be done yesterday! Y'all have given me good tools to work with. I was at such a loss, still am, but at least now have a little bit to go on. More thoughts apprieciated!

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