Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Puck · 02-04-2003, 06:08 AM

I'm so upset I can't stand it. I need y'all's help. Our little local paper has an article in it today that begs response and I just don't have the sure expertise needed to do the job. I need to work with facts quickly and am asking y'all to circle the wagons and help me put together a solid response.

Following is the article. The local paper doesn't have this online or I'd just link to it. It is in response to an article about the US being a secular nation. Typos are mine, I'm too damned pissed to care.

Quote:

Fred Colson, in his editorial "Religion is man made" said of our nation "it is secualr, i.e., a non-religious nation that has no affiliation with any religious group whatsoever. And may it ever be thus."

Although christianity has vitually been removed from the public arena, the religion of secualr humanism has filled any void in it's absence.

Humanism is the second oldest religion in history. It is a desire to be lifted above god and to become god. Although modern secular humanism often denies the existence of god, it basically promotes man to the place of god in his own imagination.

It is impossible to have a government or any instutition without the presence of religion, since they are made up of people who are religious by nature.

Even the atheist who pretends there is no god is, in the pratical sense, religous. His involvement in government would have a religious effect on that governemnt. Therefore, since religion in government is unavoidable, it is a matter of which religion is best.

Here in the United States, we have traded the most fruitful and the only true religion for the most destructive one. The philosophy of secular humanism condones and in many places promotes euthanasia, abortion, suicide, sex outside of marriage, homosexuality, pornography and pedophilia to name a few- all of which christianity opposes.

Secualr humanism has been the religion of the former Soviet Union, Red China, Cuba and Nazi Germany. It is the religion of death. More than 100 million lives have been taken through abortion, Hitler's death camps, and communist regimes.

Secualr Humanism began to make sigificant in-roads in our country in the 1930's through the "progressive movement" led by educator John Dewey, a co-arthor of the Humanist Manifesto. His desciples quickly gained prominence in key position as college presidents and the head of the National Educators Association.

With these men in place, in the name of progressive education, they first began to rewrite our history, creating 'social sutdies', where they combined several subjects together so their trickery would not be easliy detected.

Through writing the new curriculuim materials and the teachers manuals, the very subtely began to inject their poision, with questions such as "since society changes from one generation to the next, what are some of the old fashioned ways of your parents that bother you most?"

Like a wolf that seeks to seperate the young from the flock, they very subtley created what is known as the generation gap and the youth culture. It became 'uncool' to like your parents, as least in public.

They succeded in separating us from our historical roots and divided the family, society's most basic building block.

We are now three generations into their influence. Only the very old can remember the pre-humanistic era.

They are the ones that tell us that when they grew up, children respected theri parents and worked hard to do their part in the family. They were grateful. They didn't think the world owed them anytihing.

Mr. Colson, these are the kind of people that made America great.

I don't really understand the secular humanism take on things enough to argue it with facts. Hell, I may be one and not know it. I just think what I think and have never really thought to put myself into a catagory.

Anyone want to help me pick this apart and respond properly? Surely humanism isn't the second oldest religion in history? I take it Mr. Morton is saying christianity is the oldest!? My word, I can't believe this was even printed, even though it is a tiny rural paper in south Georgia, USA. In a way, this doesn't even dignify a response, but I'd like to at least put forth some facts against it.

Refused · 02-04-2003, 08:03 AM

Ok, I don't have much time to post point-by-point, but I couldn't help at least sending a quick reply.

WTF???!!!

I'm from SC, so I understand your anger completely. Did this idiot even look up the definition of secular or humanism? Here's what the Cambridge online dictionary says:

secular
adjective
not having any connection with religion

secular humanism = a set of beliefs placing the greatest importance on individuals rather than religion.

This deserves a full reply.. but if not a full reply, then at least send the guy a proper definition to use next time.

The complete stupidity is amazing.

-Refused

:banghead:

Selsaral · 02-04-2003, 08:09 AM

It's just stunningly ignorant and silly. You'd have to refute point-by-point every single letter in every word the person wrote.

Puck · 02-04-2003, 08:40 AM

I had to run into town to do some errands this morning, but now I have some time to do a little research.

Yeah, this guy is either ignorant or an idiot, nay, both. My blood pressure is till up, but I think my heart rate is back towards normal. I don't usually get fired up, but this one got me.

Point by point, letter by letter, maybe. I'm thinking of just stating the facts in a simple way just to expose his ignorance.

philechat · 02-04-2003, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Although christianity has vitually been removed from the public arena, the religion of secualr humanism has filled any void in it's absence.

Ask him what is the definition of "religion". An Oxford dictionary could possibly help. If religion is simply a way of life, then yes, secular humanism is "a religion". But I doubt this is what he meant.

Quote:

Humanism is the second oldest religion in history. It is a desire to be lifted above god and to become god. Although modern secular humanism often denies the existence of god, it basically promotes man to the place of god in his own imagination.

"The Second oldest religion"? :notworthy :notworthy For the love of (insert diety here), why would it be bad that we humanity want to become God? Why such jealous and tender protection of your (oppressed and victimized) God?

Quote:

It is impossible to have a government or any instutition without the presence of religion, since they are made up of people who are religious by nature.

Huh? What do you mean by "religious"? Elaborate please.

Quote:

Even the atheist who pretends there is no god is, in the pratical sense, religous. His involvement in government would have a religious effect on that governemnt. Therefore, since religion in government is unavoidable, it is a matter of which religion is best.

See above.

Quote:

Here in the United States, we have traded the most fruitful and the only true religion for the most destructive one. The philosophy of secular humanism condones and in many places promotes euthanasia, abortion, suicide, sex outside of marriage, homosexuality, pornography and pedophilia to name a few- all of which christianity opposes.

How do we know Christianity is the "only true religion"? Please kindly travel "anywhere" on this beloved Earth. Don't understand why all the "vices" listed above are evil--God says so, I believe.

Quote:

Secualr humanism has been the religion of the former Soviet Union, Red China, Cuba and Nazi Germany. It is the religion of death. More than 100 million lives have been taken through abortion, Hitler's death camps, and communist regimes.

No no no. Communism is NOT secular humanism. And secular humanism is NOT a closed system of philosophy either. Russia, China and Nazi Germany's examples do not hold because they are but the tragic nature of humanity's inability to oppose dictators, as well as the result of economic depression. Hitler also opposes homosexuality, pornography, and extramaritial sex as far as I am concerned.

Quote:

With these men in place, in the name of progressive education, they first began to rewrite our history, creating 'social sutdies', where they combined several subjects together so their trickery would not be easliy detected.

Then open their text books to point out the inconsistencies. Don't bark here like a puppy (no offenses to our canine cousins). If you can't find it you gotta educate yourselves a lil' better than this.

Quote:

Through writing the new curriculuim materials and the teachers manuals, the very subtely began to inject their poision, with questions such as "since society changes from one generation to the next, what are some of the old fashioned ways of your parents that bother you most?"

Ummm...so older is better. Appeal to tradition I see. No comment on this one.

Quote:

Like a wolf that seeks to seperate the young from the flock, they very subtley created what is known as the generation gap and the youth culture. It became 'uncool' to like your parents, as least in public.

Herd mentality. The word "flock" explains it all (the reason I think certain Christians are simply incorrigible---their slavish, impoverished nature made it so)

Quote:

They succeded in separating us from our historical roots and divided the family, society's most basic building block.

No comment on this one, since I am "anti-family".

As for the last few paragraphs, I would rephrase as such, "we need more slaves to build this great nation of the United States. They used to listen to us. Now they don't and I am going to cry for my Daddy in the sky to help me beat up those 'evil, oppressive' Secular Humanists. Daddy!"

Writer@Large · 02-04-2003, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Puck
I don't really understand the secular humanism take on things enough to argue it with facts.

Then your first task is to get a little educated on it, or you'll never be able to rebut this guy effectively. Go to the Council for Secular Humanism and read up! You might also check out SecularHumanism.com and this page on Humanism, which shows that not all Humanists are secular. Then, consider these points:

#1: Atheism does not equal Secular Humanism, though this chum seems to equate the two. Yes, Secular Humanism presumes atheism (or agnosticism), but not all atheists are Secular Humanists. Atheism is a position, a stance; Secular Humanism is a philosophy, an ethical code, and a behavior model.

#2: Secular Humanism is not a religion. Religion involves the worship of deities; Secular Humanism has no deities.

#3: Stalin, etc., were NOT Humanists. Any cursory examination of the Humanist philosophy (individual worth, personal freedom, etc) is enough to realize that.

There's more, but some of the others have pointed them out. Hope this helps.

--W@L

Writer@Large · 02-04-2003, 12:08 PM

Yeesh.

In looking up a web address for Puck, I stumbled across this:

http://www.secular-humanism.com/

Disgusting little preachy bit disguised as a pro-SecHumanism site ... if you get to the end of your "investigation," it sends you to http://www.holy--bible.com/. Hoody-hoo!

--W@L

Refused · 02-04-2003, 12:18 PM

W@L, you may have hit upon something here. Seems the atricle's writer could have taken this web site seriously!

That website AND article deserve a reply.. wait.. there's just too much ignorance to reply to.. can't... take... it... anymore....

:banghead:

- Refused

Puck · 02-04-2003, 01:15 PM

Thanks for the links W@L, I've been to one of them already, and sent a copy of the rubish...I mean article to them.

I'm trying to work up a proper response now, but I think it will take a couple of days to put together something with facts, intelligence and compassion. Yeah, I'd like to blast the fool right out of the water, but I'd rather put things in a way that makes what I have to say taken seriously by the readers.

Telling him to f*ck off would be fun, but never get respect, let alone published. The pisser is that they just published a letter to the editor I had sent in regarding the GA flag issue, and it was printed right next to Mr. Mortons garbage! Took the joy right out of my first letter to a paper. I'll have to post it later, I'm right proud of it.

Puck · 02-04-2003, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Refused

That website AND article deserve a reply.. wait.. there's just too much ignorance to reply to.. can't... take... it... anymore....

LOL! Refused, I'm putting you in charge of replying to the website! If I have to deal with Mr. Morton, you gotta do the website. Now, get going.

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02-04-2003, 08:03 AM	#2
Refused Regular Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: South Carolina Posts: 490	unbelievable Ok, I don't have much time to post point-by-point, but I couldn't help at least sending a quick reply. WTF???!!! I'm from SC, so I understand your anger completely. Did this idiot even look up the definition of secular or humanism? Here's what the Cambridge online dictionary says: secular adjective not having any connection with religion secular humanism = a set of beliefs placing the greatest importance on individuals rather than religion. This deserves a full reply.. but if not a full reply, then at least send the guy a proper definition to use next time. The complete stupidity is amazing. -Refused :banghead:

02-04-2003, 08:09 AM	#3
Selsaral Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan Posts: 3,095	It's just stunningly ignorant and silly. You'd have to refute point-by-point every single letter in every word the person wrote.

02-04-2003, 08:40 AM	#4
Puck Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: A middle aged body. Posts: 3,459	I had to run into town to do some errands this morning, but now I have some time to do a little research. Yeah, this guy is either ignorant or an idiot, nay, both. My blood pressure is till up, but I think my heart rate is back towards normal. I don't usually get fired up, but this one got me. Point by point, letter by letter, maybe. I'm thinking of just stating the facts in a simple way just to expose his ignorance.

02-04-2003, 12:08 PM	#7
Writer@Large Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Posts: 7,198	Yeesh. In looking up a web address for Puck, I stumbled across this: http://www.secular-humanism.com/ Disgusting little preachy bit disguised as a pro-SecHumanism site ... if you get to the end of your "investigation," it sends you to http://www.holy--bible.com/. Hoody-hoo! --W@L

02-04-2003, 12:18 PM	#8
Refused Regular Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: South Carolina Posts: 490	W@L, you may have hit upon something here. Seems the atricle's writer could have taken this web site seriously! That website AND article deserve a reply.. wait.. there's just too much ignorance to reply to.. can't... take... it... anymore.... :banghead: - Refused

02-04-2003, 01:15 PM	#9
Puck Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: A middle aged body. Posts: 3,459	Thanks for the links W@L, I've been to one of them already, and sent a copy of the rubish...I mean article to them. I'm trying to work up a proper response now, but I think it will take a couple of days to put together something with facts, intelligence and compassion. Yeah, I'd like to blast the fool right out of the water, but I'd rather put things in a way that makes what I have to say taken seriously by the readers. Telling him to f*ck off would be fun, but never get respect, let alone published. The pisser is that they just published a letter to the editor I had sent in regarding the GA flag issue, and it was printed right next to Mr. Mortons garbage! Took the joy right out of my first letter to a paper. I'll have to post it later, I'm right proud of it.

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