Sabine Grant

[QUOTE]Originally posted by brettc
[B]The context of this verse is irrellevent to the discussion. This is biblical "evidence" for mass delusion.

I disagree with you... the context is quite relevant. You created the term " mass dementia" without giving a medical explaination. I have also asked you to define the term " psychosis". Which you are still not providing. You then turn the term dementia into " delusion" which indicates further to me that you tend to be what I call " a word opportunist".
Check all three definitions then we may continue this dialogue.

Sabine Grant

Bonsoir Ronin.. I have been focusing on the medical aspect of a psychosis and causes of it. I have been clear about dealing with the topic at hand based on diagnosed mental disorders.. Your illustration of " Adam and Eve lacking the mental capacity.." is a far stretch from a diagnosed mental disorder.

From your first paragraph are you implying that mental disorders are the product of individual minds who cannot distinguish evil from good which would demean all mentaly ill individuals to be people who cannot distinguish evil from good? If you are dealing on the term I am dealing on which is a diagnosed mental disorder caused by a cerebral dysfunctionment and at times geneticaly transmitted ( such as schizophrenia), your example does not apply. A psychosis has nothing to do with the ability to know based on experience.......it has to do with a pathological cause.

Sabine Grant

Ronin... can you define " insanity"? is insanity based on the knowledge of good and evil? Can you distinguish between the reasoning abilities on good and evil of a trisomic and a schyzophrenic?

BadBadBad

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Sabine Grant
[B]This is getting a little old Sabine. Here is a list of my questions that you have refused to answer, and remember the first question either of us asked was from me and you haven't answered it:

The first question in the exchange: "Are the Baptists part of modern christianity?" Answer the questions Sabine or stop complaining that I don't answer yours.

Here is the list of other questions I expect an answer to:

What better way to commnicate them than to explode as voices in your head?
Which came first, voices from God or psychosis?
Which came first, psychosis or a murderous chat with God, and how can you tell?
So, should we then apply your mental health analysis to the characters in the Bible? Paul? Abraham? Moses? Jesus? Even Adam and Eve? The authors that came up with these stories? Was all this inspiration really just a matter of dementia? Are you familiar with mass dementia?
What if I went into this church and instead of telling the preacher that God wanted me to murder my child, I tell him that God wants me to turn around this church in the model of Jesus Christ?
Are you sure you're not an atheist?
Do you believe it's possible for God, in the present time, to communicate with people not just through some subtle divine influence but explicitly either through voices and visions?
Do you believe that these things in fact happened, and do you believe God could do these things in the present day?
Here's one from Ronnin: Have you read Genesis at all, Sabine?

I especially want an answer to these questions:

Do you deny the possibility that it is within God's power to put forth a delusion just as described in this verse? Yes or no?

Do you deny the possibility that this delusion could appear to scientists and doctors as dementia or psychosis? Yes or no?

Can you consider that this type of God induced delusion could result in clinical psychosis? Yes or no?

Do you deny the possibility that even in the face of a medical diagnosis of mental illness that in fact, the underlying cause is direct intervention of God? Yes or no?

What is your definition of the word hypocrit?


For the record,

My definition of psychosis:

fundamental mental derangement (as schizophrenia) characterized by defective or lost contact with reality

My definition of mass dementia:

a group of people all simultaneously experiencing a condition of deteriorated mentality often with emotional apathy ie madness or insanity

BadBadBad

Yes you have, and you have been avoiding our hypotheticals that given the God references in the story and similar stories in the Bible, that there could in fact be another Godly explanation.

Can you explain to us how mental illness is the only possible explanation for these attrocities? I agree, as an atheist, that insanity is the most simple and rational explanation. Can you show us your scientific methods for ruling out the possibility that God indeed was behind these crimes?

Oh and these are not rhetorical questions. Please provide direct and explicit answers.

BadBadBad

My goodness I forgot delusion.

Delusion:

a persistent false psychotic belief regarding the self or persons or objects outside the self


By all means let's continue.

You have all my definitions now. So what's your point? The Bible has shown over and over where God intervened with man or said he would in the future in ways that would appear to medical doctors as psychosis, mass dementia, and delusion.

SABINE QUESTION ALERT !!!!!
Can you imagine going to a medical doctor and proclaiming that you're on your way to the hill top to sacrifice your child because an almighty God has been talking to you and you must comply? What do you think their medical diagnosis might be?
SABINE QUESTION ALERT !!!!!

Rhea

Mother Theresa talked to Jesus. She heard him speak. She quotes him.

He told her what to do.

Was she psychotic?

christ-on-a-stick

If she wasn't just lying her ass off, I'd say she was.

BadBadBad

Did you guys read the comments on the stories Ronin posted? And now for some comic relief:

And the baby thank God was found alive

This never should have happened and how dare any one say GOD had anything to do with such horrible deeds

we do not have elected officials or heads of State [like George Bush or Rick Perry] who pray to God before breakfast and then go sign death warrants

So, go pray to God if you will, but your time would be better spent fixing the festering blights that are rampant in American society, rendering you helpless from fear that your kids will get shot and killed while at school. I repeat, Texas has and will retain heaps of bad karma [resulting in such human tragedies as in Tyler] as long as such gross inequality exists in the Lone Star State. Ya'll have a nice day.

my Lord would never tell me to put such unbelieveable hurt on anyone much less my children.
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

The Lord's will- will be done for what is right for those children who certainly did not deserve to die.

This so involves my soul.. this is not God's world..NO ONE can blame hurting much less killing children on GOD.. ...send the children unto me..God loves the little children..would never hurt them only LOVE THE LITTLE ONES. at least we know they are in Heaven now and away from this horrible, evil person...DON'T PRAY FOR HER .. SHE BELONGS TO THE DEVIL... SATAN'S CHILD......

God Bless the Laney family

Instead of casting stones, pray for God to heal all the broken hearts.


I hugged my son about a hundred times the day I heard about this horrible crime. I wept for the family and church that is left to deal with her horrible and evil actions. :notworthy

God bless these children! May God be with their families in this time of need. - Where the Hell was God when this happend?

I pray for God's love to see you through this

. My continued prayer are that Jesus will be lifted up and praised even through this horrific situation. We will never understand and only God can heal the broken hearts and lives. May God give these families and this great church His peace.

I too pray with Pastor Bell and the First Assembly, Tyler, that God will move in all the lives concerned. I pray His sustaining power and healing power for husband and father Keith Laney, yes, for mother Deanna, and for all the relatives and friends close to the Laneys (Where were God's healing powers for the Children? ) , that God cause great unity in the entire community, a great concert of prayer by everyone, and that great faith in God will arise for the complete restoration of little Aaron Halelujah! Praise god's glory! . God is not diminished, and Jesus is still Lord and Savior, and all people, especially church-going people, need a personal, face-to-face encounter with Him, which necessitates a life-changing decision to follow Him whom they have met, daily. Mental illness can hit the church-going, and the clergy as well. It's not something we often talk about. But, it should be talked about. And, the Great Physician as well as the more earthly sort have great help for those so afflicted. Jesus heals just as He did when He walked the earth, and He heals mental illness! Luk 8:35 Then they went out to see what was done; and came to Jesus, and found the man, out of whom the devils were departed, sitting at the feet of Jesus, clothed, and in his right mind...
x(Did you hear that Sabine? )

BadBadBad

This one needed it's own post:

Religious delusion resulting in brutality is not a single moment of insanity, but a continuum. For every Yates or Laney, there are countless brainless women who cannot decide which toothpaste to purchase without getting the word from God. Many times these women are cruel, i.e., "We must shun so-and-so because God wants us to," etc. These women learn over time they will be held unaccountable for their actions because they delude themselves into thinking each one of their actions is that of God. Also, they will not allow themselves to be challenged because they hide beind the shield of the Almighty. Only when they kill their kids do they receive national recognition. There are far too many of these weak-minded women. The reason she butchered her children is simple. She found an Old Testament answer to a common problem: the stress of motherhood. The Church of God needs to be in the jail cell with her. They encourage weak-minded automotons like Laney to read a book filled with a vengeful, irrational, petulant and angry god who butchered more people than Adolf Hitler. They can't have it both ways. They are happy when their flock are submissively turning in their 10% and consider that faith, but when murder is involved it is mental illness. According to the dogma, how can we assume God didn't tell her to kill her kids? He sure messed with Abraham, eh? It's all religious delusion. These women are dangerous to their families and to society. For those of you trust a faceless god over your own senses: EVOLVE. Incidentally, JC, the kid, tried to clean up his dad's act - no more stoning, no more judging, etc. The worst public relations move of all time was his trying to piggyback his message on that of the crude, hateful book AKA The Old Testament. And why are churches constitutionally protected when they insidiously promote crimes against the state - murder?