Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Ichabod · 05-11-2003, 11:38 AM

It is with a heavy heart that I read in today's paper this Mother's Day about another Texas mother killing her children because her "god" alledgedly told her to do it.

This so closely parallels Andrea Yates that it is eerie.

"Dee" Laney of Tyler, Texas awoke her 6 and 8 year old sons individually, just before midnight on Friday, and led them into the front yard where she bludgeoned them to death with rocks. She then attcked her 14 month old son as he laid in his crib. (although the infant is still alive at this time)

Police reported receiving a 911 call at 12:52 AM Saturday morning from Dee reporting that "I just killed my boys." She said, "God told her to do it," reported Major Lusk.

This is another case where a deeply religious woman was staying at home and homeschooling her children.

I'm at a loss to understand how religious convictions become so twisted and warped that, in an ironic turn , all sense of moral right and wrong disappears.

Viti · 05-11-2003, 12:18 PM

Awful...how do the people in these women's lives not see their obvious mental problems? Andrea Yates had documented problems, and was told not to have more children...yet her husband let her stay home alone with them?? Others should feel responsible for allowing these things to happen.

Sarpedon · 05-11-2003, 12:55 PM

Its probably difficult to tell the difference between the deeply warped religious people, and those who are simply deeply religious.

thebeave · 05-11-2003, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ichabod
It is with a heavy heart that I read in today's paper this Mother's Day about another Texas mother killing her children because her "god" alledgedly told her to do it.

This so closely parallels Andrea Yates that it is eerie.

"Dee" Laney of Tyler, Texas awoke her 6 and 8 year old sons individually, just before midnight on Friday, and led them into the front yard where she bludgeoned them to death with rocks. She then attcked her 14 month old son as he laid in his crib. (although the infant is still alive at this time)

Police reported receiving a 911 call at 12:52 AM Saturday morning from Dee reporting that "I just killed my boys." She said, "God told her to do it," reported Major Lusk.

This is another case where a deeply religious woman was staying at home and homeschooling her children.

I'm at a loss to understand how religious convictions become so twisted and warped that, in an ironic turn , all sense of moral right and wrong disappears.

Perhaps she was merely following God's instructions as outlined in Deuteronomy:

21:18
If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:

21:19
Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;

21:20
And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.

21:21
And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.

Although it appears she didn't do it exactly as God dicatates. Methinks God will be displeased...

Ronin · 05-11-2003, 10:45 PM

Story Here

The following message was delivered Sunday morning at First Assembly of God by pastor Gary Bell, the brother-in-law of Deanna Laney, the 38-year-old New Chapel Hill woman accused of using a rock to kill two of her children and seriously injuring a third. ~

Full Message

And I declare unto the devil, we may be troubled on every side, yet not distressed, perplexed, but not in despair. We may be cast down but we are not destroyed, persecuted but not forsaken. For this church was raised up by God, and not man, and God will allow triumph to emerge from tragedy. Words of old song. "The Lord He gave me beauty for ashes, for sorrow He gave to me joy. I was sad and oppressed, He gave me sweet rest and a peace that the world can't afford."

~~~~~~~~

There is something feeble and a little contemptible about a man who cannot face the perils of life without the help of comfortable myths. Almost inevitably some part of him is aware that they are myths and that he believes them only because they are comforting. But he dare not face this thought! Moreover, since he is aware, however dimly, that his opinions are not rational, he becomes furious when they are disputed. ~ Bertrand Russell

~~~~~~~~

As for me, I will continue to maintain that religion is a hindrance to true human compassion and understanding.

Even the most liberal or mystic christian here is as culpable as any other theist for defending such nonsense under the twisted guise that religion is worthwhile simply because some comfort can be wrung from it.

And, yes, I do feel hurt and anguish...and despair.

Goliath · 05-12-2003, 12:13 AM

How terrible!

This is just one (of far, far too many) reasons why xianity is a cancer upon humanity that must be removed at nearly any cost.

Sincerely,

Goliath

Godless Dave · 05-12-2003, 06:52 AM

They're closing ranks:

Quote:

from this article
Bell spoke of challenges facing the church in the upcoming days and weeks, but stressed to the congregation to avoid talking to the media about the case.

"One (of the challenges) will be the media barrage that always accompanies such high-profile cases as this. I want to make this very clear: I would discourage anyone associated with First Assembly from making any statements to the news media concerning the facts of this case," he said.

Bell suggested members compelled to speak with the media should only pledge their support for the church and the Laney and Boatright families

Godless Dave · 05-12-2003, 06:54 AM

Hey, when Abraham heard a voice in his head telling him to kill his son Isaac, he was prepared to do as he was told. Ms. Laney was just doing as the people in the Bible did. That's one of the main messages of the Old Testament: if you hear a voice in your head that claims to be God, believe and obey it.

Shake · 05-12-2003, 08:34 AM

Well, I certainly hope she's found fit to stand trial, and not temporarily insane.

What a load of crap! Even if she believed the above Buy-bull quotes, what could the infant have done to deserve such severe punishment? Sure, a crying infant can drive you to anger, but you can't take it out on the infant.

She is a sick, sick woman. Ever since having my own child, I can't fathom how anyone could harm any child, especially their own!

The line from Superman's Dead by Our Lady Peace speaks volumes here:

Quote:

Are you worried about your faith?
Kneel down and obey!

That's right, godbots! Give not only your hearts but your minds up unto the Lord! Don't bother thinking for your selves!

the_cave · 05-12-2003, 09:13 AM

Persons who hear voices inside their head suffer from psychosis, regardless of their religious beliefs. Trying to blame psychotic behavior on religious belief seems to me to be bizarrely naive.

Psychosis is an unfortunate fact of human nature. There may be environmental factors, but schizophrenia, for example, appears to have at least some genetic predisposition. My point is, does anyone really think that if these mothers had not been religious, they would not have heard voices telling them to kill their children?

I certainly think that religious beliefs can be used in very unhealthy ways--for example, as an explanation for psychotic symptoms--but to my knowledge, no major Christian sect (or minor sect, that I can think of) today teaches that such voices should be seen as a sign from God. I suppose it could be the case that the people around these women were unresponsive to the clear signs of psychosis, but something in me suspects that not many people were in fact aware of what was happening, and there is no evidence in either of these cases that any religious organization was encouraging their lack of treatment.

Indeed, it seems to me that it's far more likely that someone undergoing psychosis would come to the conclusion that they were being spoken to by a god, regardless of their background, than the other way around. Isn't this obvious? People who are psychotic are in need of medical care--castigating them for their lack of reason and good sense is amazingly absurd.

Perhaps one could argue that those who suffer from psychotic illnesses should be kept away from religious writings--but shouldn't they then be kept away from all writings of a potentially disturbing nature? I mean, blaming the Bible--or religion in general--for these killings is like blaming the Wachowski brothers for John Malvo's spree some months ago (he was apparently very impressed by "The Matrix".)

05-11-2003, 11:38 AM	#1
Ichabod Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 16	Children Slain by Mother It is with a heavy heart that I read in today's paper this Mother's Day about another Texas mother killing her children because her "god" alledgedly told her to do it. This so closely parallels Andrea Yates that it is eerie. "Dee" Laney of Tyler, Texas awoke her 6 and 8 year old sons individually, just before midnight on Friday, and led them into the front yard where she bludgeoned them to death with rocks. She then attcked her 14 month old son as he laid in his crib. (although the infant is still alive at this time) Police reported receiving a 911 call at 12:52 AM Saturday morning from Dee reporting that "I just killed my boys." She said, "God told her to do it," reported Major Lusk. This is another case where a deeply religious woman was staying at home and homeschooling her children. I'm at a loss to understand how religious convictions become so twisted and warped that, in an ironic turn , all sense of moral right and wrong disappears.

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05-11-2003, 12:18 PM	#2
Viti Contributor Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Down South Posts: 12,879	Awful...how do the people in these women's lives not see their obvious mental problems? Andrea Yates had documented problems, and was told not to have more children...yet her husband let her stay home alone with them?? Others should feel responsible for allowing these things to happen.

05-11-2003, 12:55 PM	#3
Sarpedon Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Minnesota, the least controversial state in the le Posts: 8,446	Its probably difficult to tell the difference between the deeply warped religious people, and those who are simply deeply religious.

05-11-2003, 10:45 PM	#5
Ronin Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Mississippi Posts: 5,047	Story Here The following message was delivered Sunday morning at First Assembly of God by pastor Gary Bell, the brother-in-law of Deanna Laney, the 38-year-old New Chapel Hill woman accused of using a rock to kill two of her children and seriously injuring a third. ~ Full Message And I declare unto the devil, we may be troubled on every side, yet not distressed, perplexed, but not in despair. We may be cast down but we are not destroyed, persecuted but not forsaken. For this church was raised up by God, and not man, and God will allow triumph to emerge from tragedy. Words of old song. "The Lord He gave me beauty for ashes, for sorrow He gave to me joy. I was sad and oppressed, He gave me sweet rest and a peace that the world can't afford." ~~~~~~~~ There is something feeble and a little contemptible about a man who cannot face the perils of life without the help of comfortable myths. Almost inevitably some part of him is aware that they are myths and that he believes them only because they are comforting. But he dare not face this thought! Moreover, since he is aware, however dimly, that his opinions are not rational, he becomes furious when they are disputed. ~ Bertrand Russell ~~~~~~~~ As for me, I will continue to maintain that religion is a hindrance to true human compassion and understanding. Even the most liberal or mystic christian here is as culpable as any other theist for defending such nonsense under the twisted guise that religion is worthwhile simply because some comfort can be wrung from it. And, yes, I do feel hurt and anguish...and despair.

05-12-2003, 12:13 AM	#6
Goliath Banned Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Fargo, ND, USA Posts: 1,849	How terrible! This is just one (of far, far too many) reasons why xianity is a cancer upon humanity that must be removed at nearly any cost. Sincerely, Goliath

05-12-2003, 06:54 AM	#8
Godless Dave Contributor Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: With 10,000 lakes who needs a coast? Posts: 10,762	Hey, when Abraham heard a voice in his head telling him to kill his son Isaac, he was prepared to do as he was told. Ms. Laney was just doing as the people in the Bible did. That's one of the main messages of the Old Testament: if you hear a voice in your head that claims to be God, believe and obey it.

05-12-2003, 09:13 AM	#10
the_cave Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Earth Posts: 1,443	Persons who hear voices inside their head suffer from psychosis, regardless of their religious beliefs. Trying to blame psychotic behavior on religious belief seems to me to be bizarrely naive. Psychosis is an unfortunate fact of human nature. There may be environmental factors, but schizophrenia, for example, appears to have at least some genetic predisposition. My point is, does anyone really think that if these mothers had not been religious, they would not have heard voices telling them to kill their children? I certainly think that religious beliefs can be used in very unhealthy ways--for example, as an explanation for psychotic symptoms--but to my knowledge, no major Christian sect (or minor sect, that I can think of) today teaches that such voices should be seen as a sign from God. I suppose it could be the case that the people around these women were unresponsive to the clear signs of psychosis, but something in me suspects that not many people were in fact aware of what was happening, and there is no evidence in either of these cases that any religious organization was encouraging their lack of treatment. Indeed, it seems to me that it's far more likely that someone undergoing psychosis would come to the conclusion that they were being spoken to by a god, regardless of their background, than the other way around. Isn't this obvious? People who are psychotic are in need of medical care--castigating them for their lack of reason and good sense is amazingly absurd. Perhaps one could argue that those who suffer from psychotic illnesses should be kept away from religious writings--but shouldn't they then be kept away from all writings of a potentially disturbing nature? I mean, blaming the Bible--or religion in general--for these killings is like blaming the Wachowski brothers for John Malvo's spree some months ago (he was apparently very impressed by "The Matrix".)

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