Heathen Dawn

The common human idea of justice is that the murderer of men, such as Osama bin Laden, is to be punished, and that the feeder of the hungry, such as Mother Theresa, is to be rewarded. However, the Christian God's standards are different. VERY different. He cares not whether you have murdered or fed the hungry. He cares only about your belief - whether you acknowledge Jesus as Lord and Saviour.

If all our good works are dirtied by the sin of Adam, such that they cannot get us a reward, what incentive is there for doing good works at all? If belief in Jesus is all that matters, why not live a life of evil deeds, knowing that you are washed clean by the blood of Jesus?

Humans' natural conceptions of justice are turned upside-down in Christianity: fair becomes foul and foul becomes fair. With such a God dealing out counterfeit justice, I am glad the reality is one of blind, pitiless indifference, leaving it to us humans to make proper justice.

The Naked Mage

Sadly, "us humans" includes the same jerks and idiots who attempt to pass off the Bible as a legitimate moral guide, so it never ends.

GeoTheo

I think you are correctly pointing out a trend within Christianity, but not what the Bible says on the issue. The Bible talks a lot about good works. After We are saved and do good works to the glory of God, these good works are pleasing to God. You might say why do they have to be done to the glory of God, why can't good works be done for their own benefit?
The reason is because if not done to glorify God, we merely glorify ourselves. We get credit from our fellow men for being such great people. Also you can do good works for a bad cause. For example
cigarette companies that do good works and charitable things merely to boost their image.
So my main point is Jesus/the Bible is very big on doing good. The idea, that all you have to do to please God is believe, is a misconception IMO.
Ultimately you need to put your faith into action.

Mageth

The Bible talks a lot about good works.

So do a lot of other religious texts, and even non-religious books.

The reason is because if not done to glorify God, we merely glorify ourselves.

So when I give the homeless guy on the street corner $5 at christmas, I'm "glorifying myself?"

DigitalDruid

The reason is because if not done to glorify God, we merely glorify ourselves. We get credit from our fellow men for being such great people.

But I think it is possible to do good because we think the act is good, without looking for credit. From Mahatma Gandhi to the common man on the street, everyday there are innumerable acts of kindness that do not have such motive behind it.

The idea, that all you have to do to please God is believe, is a misconception IMO.
Ultimately you need to put your faith into action.

So, if I am saved but my actions do not please God, do I achieve salvation?

NOGO

Care to prove this.
Your opinion cannot be passed off as Christianity.

Heathen Dawn

I think you are correctly pointing out a trend within Christianity, but not what the Bible says on the issue.

The Bible says many things. The Bible, since it is the product of multiple human authorship, does not have a single opinion on the subject. The book of Ezekiel is quite heavy on the opinion that good and bad works (and not faith) are the bringers of reward and punishment.

The Bible talks a lot about good works. After We are saved

"Saved". That's the part I'm ranting about. Why do we need such a bogus criterion as belief in Jesus in order to be saved? Why can it not be, as in Islam (though here too there is a tendency to see faith as saving, compare Qur'an 3:85), that a person is rewarded or punished according to works without regard to his faith?

The perversion of justice here is that Osama bin Laden has only to accept Jesus as Lord and Saviour and he will no longer be accountable for the thousands he killed. And Mother Theresa, since she was an unsaved Catholic, is going to roast in hell no matter how many hungry people she fed. That's simply sickening.

The reason is because if not done to glorify God, we merely glorify ourselves. We get credit from our fellow men for being such great people.

It is quite easy to do good works without getting credit from fellow men. In Judaism the highest degree of almsgiving is called matan b'hester, "giving in secret", in which neither the receiver nor the giver know each other's identities, and the fact of giving is wholly sealed from public view.

Also you can do good works for a bad cause. For example cigarette companies that do good works and charitable things merely to boost their image.

So what? These are still good works! Isn't it much better than that the cigarette companies wouldn't do good works at all? If you take all those motives you state that should deter one from doing good works at all, it is evident that no-one would be doing any good works!

So my main point is Jesus/the Bible is very big on doing good. The idea, that all you have to do to please God is believe, is a misconception IMO. Ultimately you need to put your faith into action.

But according to Christianity, works cannot please God unless they are preceded with faith. Works play second fiddle (at best), and one's afterlife fate is determined by one's thoughts and beliefs. Ultimately the Christian justice court high above doesn't ask you how many hungry people you fed, but whether you accepted Jesus as Lord and Saviour. "But I fed all those those hungry people!" - "This is no concern of ours; all that matters is faith in the work done at the Cross. And since you didn't, you go to hell". THAT's the perversion of justice I'm talking about - the positing of such a petty, unimportant, bogus criterion for entering heaven or hell. Even Islam, evil and bloodthirsty as it may be, doesn't have such a perverted system of "justice".