Principia

Jolene, you are certainly entitled to be close-minded. But your certainty betrays you. I'll grant that at the moment science has holes. But what I want to know is how you know science will never explain it all. Furthermore, I'd like to know how you know that you are made from the ribs of a man.

Principia

Another close-minded creato runs away when her faith is questioned... LOL :banghead:

pz

I'm sorry to hear that. I do hope you keep trying to read and follow evolutionist arguments, however -- you might learn something.

Mageth

jolene555:

I noted in your profile that you consider yourself a "devout catholic." Perhaps you'd be interested in reading Pope John Paul II's statement on evolution:

On Evolution: Message to the Pontifical Academy of Sciences

You might also want to read Michael S. Rose's article further clarifying the Papal statement.

While the Papal statement by no means represents a total acceptance of evolution and evolutionary theory, I think you'll find that the Catholic Church's stand on creationism and evolution is quite a bit different from yours.

jolene555

just one last question . . . how am i being close-minded when it's y'all who can't believe something not agreed on by a panel of biologists. i'm 19, and i gotta say if believing what the bible says makes me closeminded then i'll be damn proud of it. and i am not running away - this arguement is far too time consuming and there are too many of you trying to argue seperate points and i am the only one being argued with. it'd take me hours to answer all the questions that are out there right now, and i could, but sadly i do have a life. i just was wanting a friendly discussion and i get insulted - that's not how i play, sorry

-jo

Lobstrosity

That's the point, Jo, we don't just believe something because one guy tells us and it sounds like it would be fun to believe. You need evidence for your beliefs. Otherwise you get taken by every con artist that comes down the road. This is why science works, but sadly you seem to have no understanding of what science is. I think you view science as a threat when all it is is an objective method for understanding what exists. Without science you wouldn't have a car, electricity, a computer, medicine, ... need I go on? It's sad how you can blindly use all that science gives you and then call it crap the second it threatens your egotistical outlook on life.

Principia

Compare versus That is how you are close-minded, jolene. Science strives to be a religiously neutral, nay even religiously accomodating, human enterprise. That's why I say even you can practice science. But you strictly prefer to believe in a 2000 year old text over the results that have been synthesized by empirical observations -- observations that anyone can make. There is no belief involved in science, jolene. Facts and theories are constantly challenged and upheld or rejected. Perhaps if you take the time to review the evidence with us, you can dispel the perception of close-mindedness you exude.

jolene555

i know full well the catholic stance on evolution. it's kind of hard to avoid after 13 years of catholic school. i am a traditionalist, though, and that stance is not yet doctrine. i have quite a bit, as much as i hate to admit it, of missouri baptist influence. the catholic church has been trying to be more adaptable, catering to more variety of people. it saddens me greatly, because the "one world religion" as it seems the catholic church may be moving towords, is (as you may know) a sign of the second coming of christ. that's a whole new arguement anyways. sorry . . .

-jo

Principia

Jolene,

You are 19, and yes you do have a life. So relax a bit won't you? Talk of the second coming of Christ and "one world religion" seem awfully uptight of you. So let's have it. What is your agenda here on a predominantly atheist board, if you have a life at 19? Why are you here posturing as a Priestess of the True Religion, trying to show us the error of our ways?

simian

Then why does the text bother with mentioning the high mountain?

Why assume Matthew 4:8 is figurative and that Genesis 2:7 ("The Lord God formed the man from the soil of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.") is literal?

If you are Catholic, I strongly you to either research the Catholic position on the age of the universe (if I remember correctly, one of the people who formulated the big bang theory was a Jesuit), the age of the earth, and evolution, or better yet, go in and discuss it with clergy.

The Catholic Church got burned badly with Gallelio (when he was tried for contradicting scripture by teaching that the earth actually moved around the sun (that is was not merely a mathematical model that made calcuations easier), while scripture "clearly" stated the earth was "fixed" and "immovable"), bad enough their stance on the bible has changed from literal truth to spiritual truth.

Frankly, I don't care if you take the bible as literal or figurative, just be consistent when you do it.

Simian