Pensee

Don't Jehovah's Witnesses believe that only 144,000 people will go to heaven?

Or is that another group? If so, which one?


The reason I'm asking is that I was thinking about how JW go door-to-door in an attempt to convert people. If they believe only 144,00 people since the beginning of time will get to heaven, why on earth would they try to convert anybody? That's just more competition for a place in heaven. Competition has got to be stiff, if there are only 144,000 available spots in heaven. Why would they try to decrease their own chances of getting one of those spots by bringing in more competetitors?

That doesn't seem to be the best strategy...

Evil Milkman

This is exactly the point. If they believe that only 144,000 male virgins will make it to heaven, they're probably just being a bit self-righteous and snobby when they evangalize. Gives me a laugh!

I honk at good old JW's and they always wave back. Anyone got any good things to say to them when they come knocking at your door? How about something like, Hey, sorry guys, I was just in the middle of enjoying SEX. Come back later?

[ September 19, 2002: Message edited by: Evil Milkman ]</p>

Sunfair

As I understand it (from JW friends back in high school) 144,000 will live in heaven with God and the rest will live in paradise on earth. That paradise is what you usually see on their pamphlet covers- dressed-up smiling folks at a picnic with a few wild animals around them (usually always lions for some reason) lounging in the shade. The bad guys, however, get blown up by God and cease to exsist- like some kind of cosmic video game or something.

I think you're right about the competition being fierce to get in. I went with my friends to the Kingdom Hall for some kind of pseudo-Easter service (cuz you know they don't really celebrate those pagan holidays), and they passed around a goblet of wine that only those of the 144,000 were supposed to drink of. (And according to my friends the people who are of that elite group "just know if they are.") Well, let me tell you, things got tense among the congregation that day because some of the JW's there thought that too many people were drinking out of the cup!

Joel

The description of the basic doctrine is accurate. According to the JW's there are 144,000 people chosen to rule alongside Christ in heaven. These 144,000 were originally supposed to be all Jewish, but when not enough Jews believed in Jesus as the Messiah, it was opened to the Gentile nations.

At this point, all of the 144,000 have already been chosen according to the JW's. Only a little over 8,000 remain living on Earth. Supposedly all others have already died and passed on to the their reward in heaven. The Witnesses have been saying for years that Armageddon will come before all of the 144,000 have passed away. Now that most of the remaining 8000 who claim to be of the heavenly class are in their late 70's or older, they are changing their tune once again and saying they all will pass away before Armageddon.

Anyway, all others who follow the 'Truth' (JW doctrine in other words) will be resurrected from death after Armageddon and spend eternity on a paradise earth under the rule of Jesus and the 144,000.

That's the official religious line anyway. If anybody needs any more info, let me know. I was raised as a Jehovah's Witness and am very familiar with their particular brand of idiocy.

Marduk

The JW's just completed their new "Kingdom Hall" in my town, less than 1/2 a mile from my house! Now I can look forward to their little Sat. AM visits, Fortunately I'm usually out at the time they invade. I take my dog down to the park. My grandpa was a JW, but he had to wait till my grandma died before he could join up, she thought they were nuts.

In an odd way I sort of like them, fundies without hell, they agree that Easter & Christmas are Pagan holidays, etc.

crownboy

Most of the info you've gotten is basically correct, stardust.

Like Joel, I too was raised a JW, and am I'm all too familiar with their wacky theology .

As has been said, JW's believe that only 144,000 people will be serving with god in heaven, and all the rest of the good people will live on a restored paradise earth (like sunfair pointed out, apparently paradise for JW's is just one big interracial, western type picnic, in which children play with the obligatory lion ). According to JW theology, the "path to heaven" was closed in 1935 (which was the first year JW's adopted the paradise on earth doctrine. Before that they believed that everyone would go to heaven, and that the 144,000 would simply have a more important role in heaven above everyone else). However, there are exeptions to the 1935 rule. If a member of the 144,000 should prove "unfaithful" in their earthly course, then they can be replaced by a younger person (of course, there isn't any offical way of choosing the 144,000, or knowing if one has "fallen away" and needs replacing, JW's simply assume a member of the 144,000 gets their calling by some non specific communication from god). This "loophole" is very useful for the JW organization, since to sit on the central religious body of the religion (which has papal authority type control over the religion and doctrine), you have to be a member of the 144,000. The majority of the members of this body were either born or baptized after 1935 (a JW technically becomes a JW only after baptism, which usually occurs in the teen years for one raised a JW), so this allows relatively young men with functioning brains to continue to run the religion (also, alot of the power is delegated to other people not of the 144,000, but decisions ultimately come from the central governing body).

As sunfair also pointed out, JW's aren't keen on too many newer, younger people claiming to be of the 144,000. In my years as a JW, I've only met a handful of such people (persons of the 144,000), and they were all very old. JW's always present newer ones with the hope of a paradise earth.

DigitalDruid

I am curious about the number 144,000. Where did that come from? What do JWs claim to be the source of that piece of info? Does anyone here know?

Sunfair

Well, I'll leave it up to Joel, and crownboy to confirm, but as far as I know it's from the Book of Revelation. Specifically the part where the 144,000 from the tribes of Israel convert at the sight of Jesus returning to earth.

I'm not sure, though, how they took a bunch of converting Jews at the last battle and turned it into a bunch of door-to-door proselytizers who become the elite ruling force of Jehovah. That's a bit of a stretch there.

Joel

LOL.

As to the 144,000 question, yes it does come from Revelations. I honestly can't give you the chapter and verse off the top of my head (spent ten years trying very hard to forget a lot of this stuff), but will look it up tonight when I get home if Crownboy hasn't already posted the answer. One thing you can say for the JW's - plenty of literature provided for reference.

DigitalDruid

Thanks Sunfair, joel for the info on the 144,000 number.

Looks like JWs's God loves nice round numbers like 144,000.