SLD

Do many free thinkers out there go to church? I went for a long time after I had abandoned my faith, but I usually don't go anymore unless I can't get out of it. I just don't want to be seen as a hypocrite - especially by my children.

I've come out of the closet more and more, and no longer tell people that I'm a member of the Episcopal Church. What surprises me is that when I tell people I've stopped attending church because I don't believe it anymore, I get so many responses, like "yeah, I don't believe it either" or such. But so many go to church because it's a social thing.

I had lunch the other day with a friend who's recently gone through a divorce and the Church was there for him and he found great solace through it. I can certainly relate, but he doesn't believe in any of the mythology of the bible either? Another scientist friend of mine goes to church regularly, but said to me privately that he couldn't imagine that the creator of the laws of physics would violate those vary laws. He still believes in God and goes to church because it's a social thing.

Is this what church is turning into? Just a social event. My study of Ancient Greece and Rome shows that the Romans themselves did not believe any of their mythology, but they participated because it was their patriotic duty to do so and everyone just did it.

Does anyone think that could be good for this country (USA)? What other alternatives are there for people?

SLD

Badfish

Sure lots of people wear sunday faces.

seebs

There's whole different categories, galore:

* Social Christian. Doesn't believe, just goes to be social.
* Pod person. Doesn't believe, goes to avoid raising suspicions.
* Never thought about it. "Believes" the way most people "believe" that lemmings jump off of cliffs; that's what he's heard, he's never thought about it.
* Making Nice. Spouse or kids are Christian, going along with them to be supportive or friendly. (Different from Social Christian, in that he may not care about other churchgoers)
* Evil Lying Deceiver. This is the one who actually takes this crackpot stuff about "loving your neighbor" *seriously*, and doesn't just want to find ways to condemn the neighbors. You have to cast these people out, or they will convince others to join their heretical ways. Many talk about strange things like "hope" and "love" in conjunction with faith, apparently unaware that faith is blind certainty coupled with fanatical opposition to all who believe otherwise.

Badfish

Pod Person.

Rational BAC

I am Episcopalian also. But do not think it essential at all to go to any church regularly in order to call yourself Christian.

I do not think Christianity was ever meant to be an organized religion anyway. Was probably just meant to be a word of mouth thing between individuals, or maybe very small groups of individuals.

Very little about the rationale for actually organizing a physical church is in the Bible. Most of the early organization of the early Church was done by St. Paul----who I take with a large grain of salt anyway.

I think the best known part which might call for an organized Church is that which calls for "2 or more when gathered together"

Don't know where anyone got the idea that 2 or more meant the necessity of 1000's and millions of people belonging to an organized Church with a hierarchy.

(Of course Jesus himself did preach in front of multitudes But that was Jesus.)

2 or more means to me simply maybe 3 or 4. 10 people worshipping together would be a stretch (but then again there were 12 apostles.

So I think 12 should be the maximum # of members of any particular organized group of Christians.

Christianity was always supposed to be a very personal religion between a man and his saviour----and not much more than that.

Carlos

While I don't think Church or religion means the same thing to everyone, I do agree that the social aspect of congregating and celebrating beliefs has a strong pull on many theists. At one end of the spectrum you have fundamentalists - people for whom the beliefs themselves and relationship with God are more important than interpersonal relationships with fellow believers. On the other end you have folks who value those interpersonal relationships much more than a specific set of religious beliefs (an example might be the Unitarian Universalists). I'd argue that the more important one type of relationship is, the less important the other one must be. The more I trust or value the beliefs of some authority, the less I value my own (and vice versa).

Though my family no longer expects me to attend religious services, certain days are "special" (Christmas, for one) and if I am around I will go with them. Though I'm still in the closet (door open, so to speak), I do not participate and make no pretense of believing. So, even for them (and for me) the social aspects of Church going can overrule the purported reason for the gathering.

Ojuice5001

emphasis mine

That's a highly controversial statement, and I deny it. I think the Romans believed about as much of their mythology as I do, except that they were prone to soft polytheism and I'm a staunch hard polytheist.

I don't think most people thought there were corporeal supermen on Olympus, or that Hercules was historical. But there's every reason to think the Romans believed: that the gods existed, that they are personal intelligences, that they care about human affairs, and that the events of history and daily life are guided by the gods. I see these as the core of (my version of) theism.

A quote from Chesterton sums it up well:

SLD

To which I would add: Doesn't really give a rat's ass. He goes to church because everyone else does but he doesn't think about these things and doesn't care because he'd rather be home watching football or porn.

SLD

Kevbo

However, it seems that even some people who don't really believe in the mythology get really defensive if it's definitively challenged.

Goliath

Other than attending a funeral of someone that I care about, a wedding of someone I care about, or (very rarely) attending a secular event that happens to be held at a church, I'd rather die than go to any church.

Sincerely,

Goliath

PS No, I am not kidding.