Kuu

I will disregard the health problem side of me having babies and answer this question.

If my marriage was loveless and going nowhere, but not violent, I would have been able to end the relationship without too many problems. If I was pregnant as a result of such a marriage I would probably have the baby. I might keep the baby, let my husband keep it or maybe if it was OK with him put it up for adoption.

In the cause of rape my problems would be more with the pregnancy than with the actual child. I wouldn't want the emotional trauma of carrying around inside of me a child that was the product of rape.

OCLonghorn

Thanks Kuu, I'm glad you were able to distance yourself from the actual situation and answer the hypothetical.

Long Winded Fool: I guess I buy your distinction between the abuse itself v. the situation, but I still think that bears some responsibility too. I'm not talking about one isolated incident (or even 2) where someone you think you know goes completely berzerk. I'm talking about a partner who habitually demonstrates a cruel and abusive nature and you take no responsibility for changing your own situation. Again, that doesn't mean the woman is to "blame" for the abuse...only that she failed (for whatever reason) to take measures to prevent it and therefore, shares SOME portion of the responsibility.

As an ill-thought-out example, imagine parking a nice car in a bad neighborhood with the top down and the engine running. It's not my "fault" when someone steals it...they are still completely and solely to "blame" for the theft...but I still bear responsibility for the situation.

So as not to appear hypocritical, I freely admit that in that sense, almost any witness to a crime in progress would share some responsibility...maybe not for preventing the crime (due to the element of surprise), but maybe for not attempting to catch the bad guy. I'm not saying that is bad, or that we should always try to prevent any evil. If I witness a purse-snatching, lets say...and I fail to tackle the bad guy when he runs by me...sure I bear some minute percentage of the responsibility if the guy is not caught. That doesn't mean I am to blame or that I should feel the least bit guilty. Afterall, there is risk involved, I have a family to think about, and there is uncertainty whether my attempt would be successful.

All that to say that maybe I just have a broader, less accusatory concept of "responsibility" than most.

OCLonghorn

I guess that is what I am looking for...help with the definition of "consensual". Are we talking the immediate response ("Yes" or "No") to the advance? Or can the immediate response be interpreted later thru the use of other conditions? Threat is one that seems easy in a moral sense, but I bet legally has all kinds of holes. This is especially so as the immediacy of the threat diminishes.

If so, what are those other conditions....The victim's state of mind (IE-intoxication, mentally handicapped) is another well documented condition, but what about a girl who was tricked into agreeing to sex (I'll be your boyfriend, etc.)? Is there such a thing as "Fraud in the inducement" when it comes to sex. If you do that in a contract, the consent is deemed withdrawn...but in the case of sex, you can't unring the bell.

Or, as in my previous example, a wife who doesn't "want" to have sex, but does so as a "duty" of a wife. Again, it's not a violent marriage....maybe not even particularly unhappy...simply loveless/passionless. If it was completely up to her, she wouldn't have sex, but she feels "compelled" to. What's the word for such an arrangement?

brighid

There are many dimensions of responsibility that come into play when discussing domestic violence and it is complex. I do feel, that in some part a woman does have some portion of responsibility in a violent relationship, maybe not at the particular moment she is being attacked, but at some point prior and even after. I also think we need to remove the negative connotation associated with victims responsibility in this scenario and do our best not to make generalizations about abusers and victims. I also feel society has a large responsibility to the continuation and perpetuation of the cycle of violence on women and children.

We learn that the system is impotent and having him put in jail for a night or two only makes the next beating more severe, and the abuser more deadly. Domestic abuse has a pretty negative social stigma attached to it, and more often then not the abused encounter the kind of “support’ Kuu described to us. Those comments certainly don’t help a woman already suffering from the ravages of a slowly beaten down self-esteem who finds few safe places to turn for help. Often times the allegedly “safe’ places aren’t safe at all because he will stalk you, hunt you down, find you and do his best to harm or kill you and anyone who might stand in his way.

You also know that if he goes to trial he will likely only get a slap on the wrist and it will take several offenses before he serves any time, and then it’s still pretty minor. You build up certain defense mechanisms and behaviors that keep you alive, although battered to an emotional and physical pulp.

I think a lot can be done at the beginning stages of a relationship before things have progressed to the point of physical battery. 1st society has to realize that verbal and emotional battery IS NOT okay and it precipitates physical battery almost always. We need to remove the idea that women are not as valuable as men and that a woman has a certain “subservient place” in society, as well as father’s and/or husbands having the obligation to control and put their daughters/wives “in their rightful places.” We need to teach our girls that they have the right to say NO, that they aren’t worthless without a man, that they do not have to endure abuse and hold a family together alone, and we must do better to support the agencies in our communities that do provide a safe haven for women. We have to stop tolerating negative talk from co-workers (male or female) about women, we can’t remain silent when we hear about another woman being stalked, raped, or murdered at the hands of her husband, ex-husband, lover or boyfriend, and have to teach our girls how to defend themselves, how to recognize the warning signs of a potentially abusive mate and support them when they do find themselves in a terrible situation. I also think we need to address the reasons why men abuse and support efforts to council and heal these men. This women/wife might leave him but without help (if he accepts it) he will go on to abuse another woman, and another until someday he kills one of them, if he hasn’t already.

Too many women don’t know or willfully ignore the warning signs in a relationship that a man may turn violent. I have seen it happen to many times with friends and family. Once you are aware what to look for an abusive guy isn’t difficult to spot, even if he does a good job disguising himself in the beginning. We also have to teach women it’s okay to not play the lady and “stand by your man” no matter what OR to ignore that instinctual feeling that something isn't right.

Brighid

trientalis

Brighid:

:notworthy :notworthy :notworthy