christ-on-a-stick

Interesting point, VonEvilstein. Check out this thread about whether theists can be trusted as jurors . It was an interesting discussion.

Howdy Helen,

I don't mean this to seem sarcastic (for real!) but you said Isn't that what it means to be delusional?

Hmmmmm... this thread has gotten me thinking about the whole topic of mental illness and something that I've been turning over in my mind for some time but have yet to try and articulate it... whether or not the term "mental illness" as it is used now is really appropriate for certain diagnoses which are NOT organic in nature (and thereby treatable with meds.) Would it be more accurate to call these "mental disorders "?

I'm thinking of psychological phenomenon such as False Memory Syndrome, people who believe they have been abducted by aliens, sociopathic and narcissistic tendencies, etc......and yes, in my opinion, god-belief (especially fundamentalism).

Maybe this will be one of my threads to "compose" while I am on vacation and post when I get back....

HelenM

Hi Lauri,

I understand why you'd consider making that separation. Actually, mental illnesses are often called mental health disorders as it is so you might need to use different terminology.

But I think I see what you're proposing - a separation between the type of problem where someone's brain is malfunctioning biochemically and the type where their thinking seems harmfully 'off'.

I'm not sure, practically speaking, if that separation could be made. I very much doubt it could be with our current state of knowledge.

But since every thought, at some level, is a chemical (electro-chemical?) reaction, will we ever be able to clearly distinguish between "your brain is not ill but your thinking is screwed up" and "your brain is ill"?

And then there is the subjectivity which I was trying to allude to with my comment about people never agreeing that what they hold to be true is delusional , regarding what is and isn't a delusional thinking.

[Looking round to see if I've inadvertently backed myself into a corner - I don't see one but maybe I'm deluding myself that there isn't one )]

Helen

christ-on-a-stick

LOL Helen!!!

Thanks for your reply. I feel like my thoughts on this are kinda disjointed but I'm glad that I made *enough* sense for you to get what I was talking about Yes. I think you may be right about that, but I also think we're moving forward in leaps and bounds - look at how much we have progressed just in the past 50 or so years. Not to mention that 100 years ago, if you were schizophrenic or bipolar, etc. you were just plain "crazy" (which I guess was a step up from being demon-possessed!) I see what you are saying but I think that a difference can be determined even now (brain scans, studies testing efficacy (or non-efficacy) of medications, etc.)

I'll toss this out there: to me, in an everyday sense the word "mental" refers to the "mind" or consciousness as an emergent property of the physical brain. So it would seem more accurate to me to call diseases such as schizophrenia, bipolar, biochemical depression etc. "brain illnesses" and call psychological disorders "mental disorders".

I wonder if perhaps making such a distinction would help people understand that (what we now call) mental illnesses such as the ones above are real , physical illnesses and not something that someone can just "snap out of". As long as they remain under the same blanket term as many psychological disorders I fear that there will always be people who don't take them seriously, the kind of people who insist that depression is just being pessimistic and SSRI's are all a placebo.

HelenM

Hi Lauri

I'm skeptical, not of your ideas but of whether what you propose can happen because

a) I also fear that prejudiced people will continue to disavow the reality of 'brain illnesses' no matter what progress the medical profession makes in knowledge and no matter how careful they are about how they refer to diagnoses, problematic thinking, etc.

b) From what I've read, my own diagnosis (Bipolar) is barely understood yet. They often don't know why the medication works when it does and in many cases (almost half, I think) it doesn't.

c) I'm not sure it's possible to make a clear delineation between a brain illness and problematic thinking because they tend to overlap and I think medication is just one of many things that can help genuine brain illnesses. If so, though, does that mean they are not brain illnesses? Maybe I'm just confusing myself here though

Anyway, I've enjoyed reading what you've had to say and please understand that, as I said, I don't reject your ideas; it's rather that it's hard for me to have any confidence that what you are envisaging is possible.

take care
Helen

christ-on-a-stick

Good afternoon Helen (or is evening for you?) Thanks and yes of course I understand what you are saying. I am quite skeptical myself that anything like this will happen in my lifetime at least, or even if it should... I like tossing these things around in my mind though. As my older sister told me when I was ten, "you think too much"! Ah well... Excellent point. I recall a discussion about SSRI's a while back that pointed out that while we know they work, in many cases we still don't know how or why. I suspect that figuring that out would certainly be a necessary first step in doing anything even approaching what I was suggesting (delineating between phsyical brain/mental).

My main hope for the moment (i.e. my lifetime!) is that mental illness, as it were, will continue to "lose" its stigma. Also, and this could be a whole other topic (maybe someday!), so long as theism and churches exist I would REALLY like to see them stop touting prayer and "God" as a cure-all while demonizing psychology as "the devil's work". (I realize that not all theists/churches who do this, but as long as there are ANY that do it's too many).

I'll quit rambling now... again thanks for reading my babblin' and have a great night!!!

Lauri

HelenM

My church has a significant area of ministry called "LifeCARE ministries" which is headed up by a professional counselor and which incorporates psychology into their workshops, classes, one-on-one lay counseling, etc. I'm very glad my church leaders don't consider all psychology to be 'anti-Christian'. I know some Christians are very dogmatically against 'psychology' and I think that's unfortunate - imo, it's unnecessarily setting aside what I consider to be very helpful.

And I absolutely agree with you in hoping that the stigma associated with mental illness will decrease.

Thanks for the interaction, Lauri

take care
Helen