Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Biff the unclean · 04-10-2003, 06:02 PM

I find them quite believable, unlike yourself.

You find them quite believable; how nice for you. But since you refuse to even read the myths for yourself you have nothing to base that belief on.
I detect a pattern.

Tercel · 04-10-2003, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Biff the unclean
Again: can I have an exact reference?
Again-I just did. Are you having trouble looking up Julian the Apostate? Why are you pretending that you aren't getting references when titles and authors are given already?

Because I'd prefer not to have to wade through several entire books (I have 8 other books I'm reading at the moment) and then guess which parts you're referring to. Euripides Bacchae appears to have verse numbers. I'm not familiar with it so I don't know what you are referring to by the "kicking at the pricks" speech and it doesn't sound like a formal title. A quick google on this got me to a site alleging that the parallel with the Bacche was Peter's escape from prision in Acts 12:1-17. I think it's not unreasonable for me to ask for verse numbers. You said that it paralleled one of Jesus' speaches: That definitely will have a book, chapter and verse number. It would be nice to have that. Otherwise I'm left trying to guess which speech in the Bacchae you think parallels which of Jesus's speeches.

As for the writings of Julian the Apostate, I'm not really feeling the need to go out and read every single thing written by one author in the chances that I recognise a paraphrased sentence you referred to when I stumble across it. I'd guess his writing have titles or chapters or verses or something. Is a specific reference too much to ask?

Quote:

You probably haven't read The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire because it's so skeptical and biased.

I haven't read it, no. What's the point of reading something written by a historian two centuries ago when so much more information is available to modern historians today? If I want to know maths, I don't grab a 2 century old book and if I want to know about archeology I don't read the works of 18th century archeologists. That Gibbon was a biased skeptic is beside the point.

Biff the unclean · 04-11-2003, 04:57 PM

Okay, you aren't going to find out for yourselves because you feel the effort would be too great. And you are correct, there is a great deal to read. Took me a very long time. We aren't talking about one or two verses or a couple of pages on a web site here. There are long, dry and involved works that have to be considered. Ker�nyi's Dionysos: Archetypal image of indestructible life alone weights a "ton."
I didn't actually think that you would avail yourself of the information needed to reach an informed conclusion. Nor do I fool myself into thinking that this will cause you to refrain from voicing a strong opinion.
But just remember as the years roll on�you considered it too much of a bother to find out.

Radorth · 04-11-2003, 09:21 PM

Tsk tsk. Making assertions without references. You better hope Daggah doesn't catch you Biff.

How about an out-of-context quote, maybe with a few elipses in it like the other Jesus-mythers use? Can we at least see that?

Rad

Biff the unclean · 04-12-2003, 11:48 PM

Tsk tsk. Making assertions without references. You better hope Daggah doesn't catch you Biff.
I made the references. You are too lazy to follow up on them.

How about an out-of-context quote, maybe with a few elipses in it like the other Jesus-mythers use? Can we at least see that?
I give you the titles and authors of books that do not make any claims that Christianity is based on Hellenism but are rather lengthy examinations of several Hellenistic religions. You can read the stories of Mithra and Dionysus for yourself. But in the same breath you complain about "out of context" quotes and reading an entire book (on the bright side they have pictures). So you are saying that you refuse to look at any evidence be it large or small. You may as well not look at anything�it's the only way you could keep your misplaced faith.

Radorth · 04-13-2003, 09:29 AM

OK, how about quoting one single author who agrees that all the Bible stories came from the Hellenists. Feel free to leave out parts of what they said. I'm not worried.

What? Still no defense of your statements?

Rad

Biff the unclean · 04-13-2003, 10:39 AM

You still don't get it. I'm not sending you to any skeptical, agnostic, yadda yadda yadda, author.
I'm sending you to the myths themselves. In the case of Franz Cumont to a devout Christian who is relating the myths.
This will enable you to see for yourself. To think for yourself. At present you have no idea what the myths are other than outlines from URLs posted earlier on this thread. You cannot make an informed judgement if you refuse to become informed.

Feel free to leave out parts of what they said. I'm not worried.
Except that I have made a point to send you to the entire book. Therefore it is impossible to leave out parts of what they say.
I have made a point not to send you to any writers that support my argument, but only to source material.

You are fooling no one...not even yourself.

Radorth · 04-13-2003, 12:46 PM

Heh. I see why Tercel gave up. I'm a bit naive I guess.

Rad

Yellum Notnef · 04-13-2003, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Radorth
I'm a bit naive I guess.

Rad

Thats the understatement of the century.

I wish I never read this thread. :banghead:

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04-10-2003, 06:02 PM	#121
Biff the unclean Banned Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: an inaccessible island fortress Posts: 10,638	I find them quite believable, unlike yourself. You find them quite believable; how nice for you. But since you refuse to even read the myths for yourself you have nothing to base that belief on. I detect a pattern.

04-11-2003, 04:57 PM	#123
Biff the unclean Banned Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: an inaccessible island fortress Posts: 10,638	Okay, you aren't going to find out for yourselves because you feel the effort would be too great. And you are correct, there is a great deal to read. Took me a very long time. We aren't talking about one or two verses or a couple of pages on a web site here. There are long, dry and involved works that have to be considered. Ker�nyi's Dionysos: Archetypal image of indestructible life alone weights a "ton." I didn't actually think that you would avail yourself of the information needed to reach an informed conclusion. Nor do I fool myself into thinking that this will cause you to refrain from voicing a strong opinion. But just remember as the years roll on�you considered it too much of a bother to find out.

04-11-2003, 09:21 PM	#124
Radorth Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 1,872	Tsk tsk. Making assertions without references. You better hope Daggah doesn't catch you Biff. How about an out-of-context quote, maybe with a few elipses in it like the other Jesus-mythers use? Can we at least see that? Rad

04-12-2003, 11:48 PM	#125
Biff the unclean Banned Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: an inaccessible island fortress Posts: 10,638	Tsk tsk. Making assertions without references. You better hope Daggah doesn't catch you Biff. I made the references. You are too lazy to follow up on them. How about an out-of-context quote, maybe with a few elipses in it like the other Jesus-mythers use? Can we at least see that? I give you the titles and authors of books that do not make any claims that Christianity is based on Hellenism but are rather lengthy examinations of several Hellenistic religions. You can read the stories of Mithra and Dionysus for yourself. But in the same breath you complain about "out of context" quotes and reading an entire book (on the bright side they have pictures). So you are saying that you refuse to look at any evidence be it large or small. You may as well not look at anything�it's the only way you could keep your misplaced faith.

04-13-2003, 09:29 AM	#126
Radorth Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 1,872	OK, how about quoting one single author who agrees that all the Bible stories came from the Hellenists. Feel free to leave out parts of what they said. I'm not worried. What? Still no defense of your statements? Rad

04-13-2003, 10:39 AM	#127
Biff the unclean Banned Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: an inaccessible island fortress Posts: 10,638	You still don't get it. I'm not sending you to any skeptical, agnostic, yadda yadda yadda, author. I'm sending you to the myths themselves. In the case of Franz Cumont to a devout Christian who is relating the myths. This will enable you to see for yourself. To think for yourself. At present you have no idea what the myths are other than outlines from URLs posted earlier on this thread. You cannot make an informed judgement if you refuse to become informed. Feel free to leave out parts of what they said. I'm not worried. Except that I have made a point to send you to the entire book. Therefore it is impossible to leave out parts of what they say. I have made a point not to send you to any writers that support my argument, but only to source material. You are fooling no one...not even yourself.

04-13-2003, 12:46 PM	#128
Radorth Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 1,872	Heh. I see why Tercel gave up. I'm a bit naive I guess. Rad

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