Soul Invictus

I was entertaining a discussion with my father in reference to Christianity and how some of their adherents produced some of the greatest atrocities in history, namely the enslavement of Black people. My point was that prior to the slave trade, Africans weren't a naturally Christian-following people. His answer was that when Jesus died on the cross he told his apostles to spread the word all over the world. So basically he was trying to fuse the African exposure to Christianity before the slave trade, which I have not currently read to support that theory (which I may be wrong, that's why I'm here). I'd been under the impression that it was the during the 1400's that Africa was readily doused with Christian thought (through their enslavement for the New World.)I think he said that to invalidate the claims I was trying to get to. My criticism was embracing a religion that was used to pacify a people from revolting out of their current oppression. I don't think he was prepared to deal with this, so that's why he answered the way he did. If anyone has information on the timeline of events of when Paul and the disciples were spreading the word and can put it into context of when Africa was exposed to Christian thought, I would really appreciate it. If I erred on my part, I can revise my points. If not, I can present it another way, but I really would like those time periods please!

seebs

What a silly argument! Slavery was a horrible botch, and an embarassment to Christianity; it's worth noticing that there was some limited opposition to it *long* before people finally gave up... but nonetheless, a dark day in Christian history, that was. I suppose we can take some small comfort from the role many religious groups played in *opposing* slavery, but... Bleah.

Soul Invictus

whose argument was silly, his or mine. Just curious

seebs

I just don't see how the exhortation to "spread the word" justifies "chaining people in boats and letting some of 'em die and then selling them".

There are lots of good questions to be had about Christianity's role in the slave trade, but I really don't think the thing about spreading the word fits in. Missionary work could have been done without selling people.

beyelzu

i definitely do not veiw christianity as being proslavery. i think that people used their value judgments and then found any biblical reason to support it. many clergy argued that slaver was either good or bad, and then claimed biblical reasons.

seebs

I think you're probably right, but the history isn't very favorable. I dislike it when people try to deny that Christians were active in slavery for hundreds of years; if you've got a theology built around forgiveness, trying to pretend you didn't make mistakes seems like a waste.

Soul Invictus

that's a good point. I couldn't even make that point, because I need to reconcile that timeline. I have to find when Paul/Jesus were around relative to the slave trade and also if there's any evidence to show that Africans were already practicing Christianity prior to the slave trade (which I find hard to believe if it was forced on them, but maybe I'm wrong)

please somebody help me out here...

seebs

Hmm. Well, religioustolerance has a bit on Christian slavery. I have no idea whether or not Christianity had spread to Africa by the time in question, but I would have a hard time believing they hadn't *heard* of it; I mean, the majority of the "slave trade" was in the 1700's or so, yes?

It is also worth observing that slavery was hardly *restricted* to Africans.

Celsus

I'm by no means an expert myself, but your father is probably thinking of the Philip's conversion of the Ethiopian in Acts 8:26-40. Christianity did spread through North Africa - Alexandria, Hippo and other cities sprouted many theologians. However, the early church never breached Sub-Saharan Africa, or if they did, it didn't survive long enough for Western colonials to discover it. There are some remnants - i.e. Tamajeq/Tuareg crosses, purportedl Jesus-worshiping cults among the Muslims, and a few other hints, but the connections are dubious at best. When the Islamic Jihad spread, Christianity all but died in North Africa. Coptic Christianity is the small remnant of Christianity in Egypt and Ethipia, but I don't think is prominent anywhere else in Africa.

The other thing he may be thinking of is the myth of Prester John, a Christian African monarch whose stock reached legendary proportions when the Christians were looking for an ally to aid the fight against the Muslims during the Crusades. He was never found (or at least reported encounters with him were all forgeries or fictions), and I've read a Christian account that "John" was a corruption of "Khan", i.e. he was Asiatic in origin. Either way, nothing can be said about it beyond the fact that it is a myth (though there may have been a historical figure behind it ).

Joel

Celsus

Oh yeah, and about the slave trade...
It's been around as long as civilisation has, so you can't pin anything on anyone. Slavery was a common practice in Africa, long before the Europeans, but did have social norms and regulations regarding its practice. For example, most slave societies integrated their slaves after two or three generations. Those that took longer to assimilate, like the afore-mentioned Tamajeqs (7-8 generations) were both feared and loathed. Slavery still did have plenty of stigma, and slave raids were the usual means of obtaining them.

The Muslims formalised a trans-Saharan slave trade in the 700s or 800s. I'm not very sure of the dates, and this was among the foundations of various ancient kingdoms. I can't remember which is which, but Mali for sure, and Gana possibly were built on trade of slaves (but also on other resources). Sorry to be so vague.

I'll have to go back to my sources for this. Racism was not part of the intra-African slave trade - that was a product of Europeans when they came. However, it was by no means a good or fair system, and but it also got a lot worse in volume and numbers when the Europeans arrived. I think it reached its peak around the 1600s, and then began a slow steady decline till it was outlawed in Europe in the late 1700s. I'll have to check references again to be sure of any dates.

Joel

Edit: In terms of total numbers, the great majority of slaving took place along the east coast of Africa. Muslim slave societies enslaved far more than Western ones did.