Farren

I really wasn't sure what topic this would fit under but its kind of a secular activist suggestion. Someone once pointed out to me that you don't see many athiest soup kitchens. In fact, here in SA you don't see any atheist anythings (organisations et al) - although, thank Blob, we're not a particularly religiously observant nation (a curious aside, recently a militantly left wing politician heriocally attempted what must be the first attempt at a secular prayer I've ever heard, at the site of a minor disaster).

Anyway, I was thinking there's a case to be made for the establishment of some kind of Atheist/Secular Humanist "church" to unify athiests/freethinkers/humanists in thier actions. Simply the fact that christians attend regular get-togethers creates more action, because it demands some kind of active, rather than passive, involvement.

Obviously you don't want to mimic the pointless ritualism of most religious ceremonies, but simply hold regular (even weekly) get-togethers of 1-2hours where people can mingle and chat, distribute material that may be of interest to other athiests, and provide voluntary donations to activist causes.

Personally, I get a lot just lurking and reading the posts on these forums because forumites (even the rightwingers) represent a greater concentration of views I hold dear than I find in the population around me. Being a non-theist is nowhere near the most important principle by which I define myself, but I find the company of other athiests a lot less socially complicated. I hermit mode a lot but can honestly say I'd enjoy regular get-togethers with other athiests. I presume the same could be said of many forumites.

Furthermore, my own experiences involve a downward moral spiral for a number of years after tossing Catholicism because it was difficult to pare away moral reasoning from the religion. It left, if you like, a "god-shaped hole" that I was loathe to fill. In later years I met Daoists, Buddhists and Secular Humanists with centered, ethical, god-free lifestyles and was able to reconstruct a moral anchor by exposure.

I have an extremely (self) isolated former friend who is obsessively and militantly athiest (his folks work for the church, he has a bookshelf full of reasons not to be a christian), who seems to have no moral anchor whatsoever. I won't go into it right now but I watched him stoop lower and lower until I could no longer endure him. Most other people I know have written him off and that's not a good advert for nontheism, apart from the pity I really do feel for him (he really is isolated and I feel bad about creating a distance between us, but...)

I think, coming from a religious background, deconverting is only the first step, and it would help tremendously for recently deconverted nontheists to share the physical company of others who share their views and affirm them.

The second aspect of the idea would be to get involved in activism that is not simply about fighting off the godbots. I've been to the websites of a number of American activist organisations and most of the focus is on Seperation of Church and State and deprogramming Xians.

It would be nice to be involved in an organisation that was feeding starving people, counselling the terminally ill and generally contributing to charity in the world in the name of Secular Humanism. I've seen bible punchers downtown reading the bible to disinterested street kids wolfing down donated food. This is 80% of the lure of religion in emerging nations.

I've been kicking this idea around for some time now but don't know how to "act locally", which is required. I mean, I've got a couple of un-politicized nontheist friends, but, well, they're not politicized, and saying "lets get together regularly and chat about things" sounds foolish since that's what in any event happens. The key difference in what I'm talking about is, of course, spreading awareness to people who are more isolated (like my former friend) and providing an open door venue to a place where you can come and feel validated, as well as share ethical frameworks and "life-affirming tips and tricks" and contributing to good causes.

Jolimont

You didn't mention Unitarian Universalists so maybe you haven't heard of them. Depending on the congregation you will find many atheists/humanists there. I attend because it gives me a community, I like the social action that goes on, and as far as religions are concerned it's really liberal, open minded and non dogmatic. I'm working on a donation drive for Afghanistan right now. I couldn't do that if I were a lone atheist.

Shake

You could look at the NTCoF as an example upon which to base such a "church."

Farren

I have taken a look at Unitarianism before and while I think for what its doing its a fine thing, its not quite what I had in mind. Unless I'm wrong there's still a substantial amount of ceremony and a general belief in nodenominational supernaturalism? Am I perhaps wrong

Jolimont

There could be some degree of belief in nondenominational supernaturalism as you put it, it really depends on the congregation. In my neck of the woods it's quite secular, but I've visited churches back east where there's quite a lot of ceremony and search for god. Most of them would agree it's not certain they will ever find god, but they look, and look, and look...! If they start talking about god too much I might have to take Sundays off, ya know, but so far so good. I rather like that skeptic church idea, but I'm too busy to start one here! I would be interested to know what you think of skeptic education for kids, some sort of Sunday School where they learn about Voltaire and Thomas Paine and other secular greats. I would dig that (I have a 5yo), but I don't know of any such thing.

Farren

AARGH

Warn be before I link to such an ugly website! My Eyes! I'm Blind!

Asthetics aside, though, yeah thats more or less what I meant. Cool to know there are some out there. Slight differences:

1. Hold more regular "socials" rather than "functions", with "functions" (guest speakers etc) being extramural events if you like. This way you're less likely to have people never coming when the local organiser is well meaning but uninspired. And provide a space (like a coffee shop) where people can just hang anytime.

2. Define what such an organisation stands for in the positive rather than the negative (Buddists don't dispute various origin theories. They have no belief about it). Ergo, a church of secular humanists "We believe that convictions that are not demonstrably true should be private affairs, and do not endorse these views. We believe that the highest good is to work towards improving the lives of all living things. We believe that tolerance and openmindedness is an essential ingredient and so on..."

Richard1366

Hopefully, whenever someone or some group is able to put together a location for atheists to gather, they won't call it some kind of church. Call it a "Den" a "Haven" a "Place" a "house" anything but a church.

MacPrince

What about a Station?

Farren

Nice link, but naah. Too cold and techie. I like "Haven" or "Sanctuary"

Seeker630

I belong to a UUA congregation and I'm an atheist. It gives me a group to interact with that provides the good, beneficial things associated with a church like a sense of community, social activism, participation in charities and so forth. It is a good social group and I like it so far. There is no dogma or doctrine and you don't have to believe in anything supernatural. You only have to keep in mind that some of them do. My group is close to half agnostic or atheist, with a couple of Wiccans and other pagans, some secular Jews and a lot of Deists. They are a very accepting group. I have been active in the anti-war movement here because they are associated with the local peace movement.

But as the other poster has said--the composition of a UUA church can vary quite a bit from one place to another. I have been told that some are more pro-theistic or even Christian leaning than others. My bunch are definitely pro-humanistc in their outlook.