Freethought & Rationalism Archive

aatayyab · 06-26-2003, 04:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Biff the unclean
Was I addressing this question to you?
If you put it on a public forum you have left it open to everyone. The is a Personal Message key at the bottom of each blurb

We do not have the concept of the " sky superman" god
Oh really? Then your God doesn't have a heaven? He doesn't do miracles? Does he just content himself with getting his followers to blow themselves and a bunch of innocent women and children up?

You are making alot of irrational deductions into the essense of my being. Well I keep asking you for rational proof and you keep avoiding it. The only rational deduction one can make is that your "essence" is a fake.

1. i appreciate your TECHNICAL advice to River presumably a non_IT literate guy/gal.

2. In my 33 years of Islam, I always used to pray a God which I never saw, never heard, never spoke. It is just that when I was born, my parents told me, so I used to do it. This is my first time, that I am questioning for the EXISTANCE of such thing called "GOD" in the presence of such miseries as we all witness around us. As per my little knowledge of Islam, our God "Allah" should NEVER be discussed since, it is beyond our mental capacity to try to "understand" HIM. For example, think of a robot that I created. Whatever I program it, it will think like that. Nothing beyond.

3. "fake" is something that we keep on calling until the day it becomes "truth". Right now, i may say that USA has been nuked by Iran. That is "fake" until the day it is REALLY nuked

Amir Ali Tayyab
http://aatayyab.com

River · 06-26-2003, 05:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by HelenM
No, not to me. So, can you explain? A brief explanation would be fine.

Helen

Evolutionism and Religion are not mutually exclusive. I have cited the Bible to demonstrate that it is well aware of the concept of deformed humans or proto-humans.

aatayyab · 06-26-2003, 05:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by haverbob
Hi River,

I'm back. Did you miss me?? A couple of questions.

1) Is the Quran the direct word of Allah spoken word for word through the prophet Muhanmmed?

2)Is it possible for the Quran to be mistaken about anything, even one thing?

Bob,

Whether anybody missed you or not, I MISSED you very much for the reason that is secret which only you and me know

1. As per Islamic teachings, Quran is direct word of Allah without any interpretation or any type of explanation by the Messenger, in this case, "Muhammad" (pbuh). However, if there are any misunderstanable things in Quran, we are prohibited to discuss it. However, Hadith, which is word of Muhammad, is not DIRECT word of Muhammad, and it may be corrupted by many of the 72 sects of Islam. As River said, Hadith, itself is a very big science and we have PHDs here in Islamic countries on Hadith. Hadith does try to address many of our "un-comprehendable" verses of Quran.

2. No, Quran cannot mistake. It is not human. It is word of Allah which is PERFECT. Full Stop. No more discussion.

River · 06-26-2003, 05:09 AM

Its not over till its over. I have not even begun ( presenting my proof).

I will render imperceptible, all critique and I will do all this with SUAVE.

chorus:but we believe the words of men ( 3 x)

aatayyab · 06-26-2003, 05:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Inconnu
One thing that appeals to me about evolution as opposed to the all loving superman creator is the existence of what we call evil. Survival of the fittest is, from a human perspective, an evil process. It fits perfectly with the existence of evil, as we judge it, in the world.
A "loving god" created world is what we would like to be true, but it does not fit. Maybe on a planet in a galaxy far far away your god is busy making the perfect world of love and harmony, probably after passing by ours one day and seeing what a terrible, intolerant, evil, self righteous place it was.

Yes, I agree 100% with you. But then, where is all the fun...?

Suppose I am God, I created you. I created this world. And then, I created "Evil". I gave you all the powers that "Evil" got, and I gave you an "extra" power which i call "belief in me". Evil has all the powers that you got and vice versa. Evil is set out to KILL you and you are set out to not only save your life but KILL the evil as well. How would you do that? Of course, you will use your "extra" power i.e. "belief in God" that Evil does not have. And you will WIN ultimately. If you don't you may or may not win the fight with Evil.

Amir Ali Tayyab
http://aatayyab.com

Inconnu · 06-26-2003, 05:18 AM

To the poster formerly known to me as aatayyab:
You have a brain, I never said anything to the contrary, its up to you if you use it or not, I care less. Your post indicates a personality who ready to believe ANYTHING from ANYONE who you deem, or it is accepted, to have more knowledge than you, without question. This is considered normal, however, what if the authority is wrong? You would never know because you refuse to question that authority. In medicine it is impractical to question fully a doctors decision, in questions of faith and belief this impracticality does not exist.
If I have a pain and the doctor prescribes relief, I know that I can question his decision without being a fool because it is my body, my life, my right, and whats more I can choose NOT TO TAKE THE MEDICATION! That may appear foolhardy, but thats freedom for you. Apart from that, the relief he would prescribe HAS BEEN PROVEN TO WORK. It would not be prescribable if this where not the case. Belief in a doctor is not extraordinary, belief in a diety is. There are those who believe without question, I would term them stupid.
I personally have no need to have a god proven to me for any reason, because, I simply dont care. I find it interesting how so many people believe in an idea seemingly pulled out of thin air, or their arses, whatever, but, as you point out, some people are just made that way.

River · 06-26-2003, 05:22 AM

Its not over till its over. I have not even begun ( presenting my proof).
I will render imperceptible, all critique and I will do all this with SUAVE. -River

[chorus:but we believe the words of men ( 3 x)]

aatayyab · 06-26-2003, 05:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by HelenM
I wasn't saying you sound stupid. I was only trying to ascertain what you're hoping for from IIDB. You're not wasting my time; it's up to me whether I read your posts or not. I won't ever blame you for the time I spend here

Helen

Oh Helen... Oh dear...

I love you and I really never meant to hurt you... Did I sound like that....Oh no... Please... i am sorry, ok?

The limitation of internet is that we cannot sit in front of each other and utter the same words alongwith our own personality, face expressions and discussion style which we are used to. Hence, all this type of confusion erupts as if someone is trying to make jokes out of another one unnecessarily.

No hard feelings here, Are there any?

Amir Ali Tayyab
http://aatayyab.com

Inconnu · 06-26-2003, 05:23 AM

You are trying to illustrate evil as seperate from human resposibility. It isnt. It is yours and mine and it is our descision what we do with it.

HelenM · 06-26-2003, 05:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by River
Evolutionism and Religion are not mutually exclusive. I have cited the Bible to demonstrate that it is well aware of the concept of deformed humans or proto-humans.

Oh, now I see what you mean. By 'other modes of thinking' you meant that one does not have to choose between 'evolutionary theory is correct therefore the Bible is wrong' or 'the Bible is correct therefore evolutionary theory is wrong'.

Sorry - I was a little confused at first and didn't realize that this was what you meant.

Helen

06-26-2003, 05:22 AM	#177
River Banned Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: NY Posts: 3,680	{Proof is coming................} Its not over till its over. I have not even begun ( presenting my proof). I will render imperceptible, all critique and I will do all this with SUAVE. -River [chorus:but we believe the words of men ( 3 x)]

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06-26-2003, 05:09 AM	#174
River Banned Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: NY Posts: 3,680	Its not over till its over. I have not even begun ( presenting my proof). I will render imperceptible, all critique and I will do all this with SUAVE. chorus:but we believe the words of men ( 3 x)

06-26-2003, 05:18 AM	#176
Inconnu Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: here Posts: 121	To the poster formerly known to me as aatayyab: You have a brain, I never said anything to the contrary, its up to you if you use it or not, I care less. Your post indicates a personality who ready to believe ANYTHING from ANYONE who you deem, or it is accepted, to have more knowledge than you, without question. This is considered normal, however, what if the authority is wrong? You would never know because you refuse to question that authority. In medicine it is impractical to question fully a doctors decision, in questions of faith and belief this impracticality does not exist. If I have a pain and the doctor prescribes relief, I know that I can question his decision without being a fool because it is my body, my life, my right, and whats more I can choose NOT TO TAKE THE MEDICATION! That may appear foolhardy, but thats freedom for you. Apart from that, the relief he would prescribe HAS BEEN PROVEN TO WORK. It would not be prescribable if this where not the case. Belief in a doctor is not extraordinary, belief in a diety is. There are those who believe without question, I would term them stupid. I personally have no need to have a god proven to me for any reason, because, I simply dont care. I find it interesting how so many people believe in an idea seemingly pulled out of thin air, or their arses, whatever, but, as you point out, some people are just made that way.

06-26-2003, 05:23 AM	#179
Inconnu Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: here Posts: 121	You are trying to illustrate evil as seperate from human resposibility. It isnt. It is yours and mine and it is our descision what we do with it.

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