aatayyab

Hi,

Since, I am a born muslim and since, I am 33 now. I have started to reason deep inside me who is ALLAH and why am i a MUSLIM? well... i asked many but found the usual answers which could not satisfy me.

Frankly, I hate to be called an infidel, but as the tradition of the many Muslim Scholars, I am starting from point zero and trying to think who i am, who created me, and is there any proof of that?

You, people are mostly infidels and I don't know if you allow or not for posting of such nature to go around. But I just wanted to discuss with you this feeling and if you could give me any plausible solution, I would be not only thankful but at service to you in any shape that i can afford.

Note: Please don't try to make me infidel as I am not trying to make you a Muslim here. Just a pure intellectual discussion with reasons and proof only.

Thanks. As far as my little knowledge is concerned, people like you (infidels) are very innocent and thinking types. You became infidel since you wanted to see reason and proof. And I am sure you are all good-natured and intellect types.

Take care,

TiredJim

So what exactly are you asking us to do?

aatayyab

any reason to believe or NOT to believe in God?

TiredJim

Oh, well, there isn't any.

We can only percieve things within our universe. If something created our universe, it could logically be outside of it. Therefore, even if we one day fully understand everything about the universe, it could still have been created by a God, or not. We'll never know.

Note: this is "a" God, not the muslim/christian/jewish/whatever specific God, so if you're wondering how that applies to your life, it's an advertisement for agnosticism.

River

Do you ever see the Beauty , when a child is born, when You come home to your wife, when a muezzin recites a verse from the Quran. Do you see how humanity has defied all odds, how certain things can not be explained by Mathematics or Probability. Do you ever wonder why no other animal has developed a " civilisation' , "movies" , " transportation" and the like.


everyone is born muslim " Submitting to the Will of G-d", even those that proclaim themselves atheist for in their subconscious they do believe in a greater Power.


I do not know if you feel this way due to hardships or anarchy occuring on the global order...or due to the difficult times in which Muslims are doubting themselves due to harsh critique from the outside. Everything you see, from the war on Iraq, to what happened on september of 11 or , the imminent wars on Syria and Iran have been written about for atleast 1400 years. Our life is an open book. We are being read...yet only few know.

TiredJim

Note: none of this proves anything related to religion.

Proof? None.

Well, that post was an impressive exercise in wasting everyone's time.

River

Perhaps the burden of Proof lies with you.

aatayyab

the anarchy is world over, not specific to muslims only. i see even non-muslims suffering since i don't see the world from the goggles of a Muslim. however, as a muslim, i feel, there are only PAID-FOR intellects and extremists around me to convince me of existence of God. You gave example of so-called "civilization" of humans. I am ashamed to admit that I would have been far better off as an ant who works, and dies without any such SHAMEFUL civilization around you and me. :banghead:

and, regarding the beauty of the way i feel love, and spirits and the 5-time daily call of muazzin... yes.. i admit that and it is true that i do feel it is something OUT of this world. As a muslim, my religious people tell me to hate this world and look at the world beyond our deaths. However, as a reasoning person, again I seem to object, since, if my today is worse, then, why should i feel calm about my tomorrow?

of course, the whole world, the universe, the system, the mechanism of everything around me got a very beautiful balance. We commit bad deeds and are punished and then we start complaining about BAD, BAD world without looking at our own bad deeds. However, again, i did not see anyone (god) making anything in front of me. I did not see anyone controlling sun to set on west and rise on east. I did not see anyone controllling my emotions, why i feel happy at some times and why i am sad at some times, even without any cause?

well... the answers lie in front of us, but i am not that much wise to understand them. i am sure there is at least ONE amongst you who could guide me towards right path.

Thanks,

TiredJim

Um, the burden of proof lies with the one trying to prove something.

He is stating that x is true, and I say that you need to prove x is true. Now you come along and say that *I* have to prove it's true? He's the one that claims to know it's true. I have no idea whether it is or not.

Edit: I just realized that the "he" I speak of is you, river. Pretend all the he's are you's.

River

Do you know that Objectivity is derived from a Subjective mind. Thus everything is Subjective, including proofs. For you to come out , and say that I do not see beauty...please prove to me beauty..and show me the balance of nature is both simultaneously arrogant and derogatory.