Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Division By Zero · 08-14-2003, 08:17 PM

I tried to explain to a creationist friend of mine some of the reasons why Behe's blood-clotting example was useless. He cut me off by suggesting we drop the subject, because continuing "would make us both feel silly." (Emphasis added.)

Go figure.

MortalWombat · 08-15-2003, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Division By Zero
I tried to explain to a creationist friend of mine some of the reasons why Behe's blood-clotting example was useless.

Did you show him this review on the evolution of serine protease cascades, which includes the clotting cascade?

Rhaedas · 08-15-2003, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by RufusAtticus

Rocky sez, "Just say no to irreducible complexity!"

For a great picture thread of impossible half a wing creatures, see:

http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.p...threadid=58020

(hey, would these be considered transitional by a creationist?

Nah...)

08-15-2003, 12:48 PM

"Charles Darwin" seems to be arguing the irreducible complexity of bats' echo location here.

Heathen Dawn · 08-15-2003, 02:50 PM

Orgel's second rule: "Evolution is cleverer than you are."

Duvenoy · 08-15-2003, 04:09 PM

QUOTE]Originally posted by DMB
"Charles Darwin" seems to be arguing the irreducible complexity of bats' echo location here. [/QUOTE]

I was hoping.....

The fact is that not all bats echolocate. The old world fruit bats don't use it. Rather, they have evolved enhanced eyesight. I think there is a single species that echolocates, but it is with tongue-clicking, rather than through the larynx.

Echolocation isn't all that rare. Toothed whales do it, some of the tenrecs of Madagascar and some species of shrew, non-fliers all, also do it.

One wonders how many times it evolved, in one form or another, over the ages.

Interesting sites:

http://www.tenrec.org/fieldolson.htm

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/art...gi?artid=33452

doov

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08-14-2003, 08:17 PM	#11
Division By Zero Regular Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: USA Posts: 179	I tried to explain to a creationist friend of mine some of the reasons why Behe's blood-clotting example was useless. He cut me off by suggesting we drop the subject, because continuing "would make us both feel silly." (Emphasis added.) Go figure.

08-15-2003, 12:48 PM	#14
DMB Guest Posts: n/a	"Charles Darwin" seems to be arguing the irreducible complexity of bats' echo location here.

08-15-2003, 02:50 PM	#15
Heathen Dawn Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 4,656	Orgel's second rule: "Evolution is cleverer than you are."

08-15-2003, 04:09 PM	#16
Duvenoy Veteran Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Just another hick from the sticks. Posts: 1,108	QUOTE]Originally posted by DMB "Charles Darwin" seems to be arguing the irreducible complexity of bats' echo location here. [/QUOTE] I was hoping..... The fact is that not all bats echolocate. The old world fruit bats don't use it. Rather, they have evolved enhanced eyesight. I think there is a single species that echolocates, but it is with tongue-clicking, rather than through the larynx. Echolocation isn't all that rare. Toothed whales do it, some of the tenrecs of Madagascar and some species of shrew, non-fliers all, also do it. One wonders how many times it evolved, in one form or another, over the ages. Interesting sites: http://www.tenrec.org/fieldolson.htm http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/art...gi?artid=33452 doov

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